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Pat H
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 Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: Re: The Shepherd And The Sheep-Assurance - but Baptists are |
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From: saints@nettally.com (Carl)
The assurance of a Christian's salvation is clarified by Jesus in the
10th chapter of the book of John and is the topic of J. Vernon McGee's
lesson.
Pat:
You Baptists misunderstand this Scripture. Discuss this below if you
can:
John 10:27-30 - Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them,
and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never
perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who
has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch
them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one" ~ Note: This is
for the ones who continue to follow Christ. What does it mean to follow
Christ? The word for follow also means to follow one who precedes, join
him as his attendant, accompany him, to join one as a disciple, become
or be a disciple. Christ said what happens when we follow Him earlier in
John 8:12 - "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not
walk in darkness, but have the light of life." The word for darkness
also means the darkness due to want of light, metaph. used of ignorance
of divine things and its associated wickedness and the resultant misery
in hell. That means you do not practice sin (wickedness). Those who do
are not following Christ. So this 10:28,29 is for those who follow
Christ and are His disciples and do not practice sin.
"neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." The word snatch also
means pluck, to seize, carry off by force. This is talking about anyone
besides yourself. Think about it. When you lose something or give it
away, it is not considered that you snatched or plucked yourself. It
requires the action of someone else, besides yourself, to have something
snatched out. But concerning our own actions, some have already turned
aside after Satan (1 Tim. 5:15). Those people aren't following Christ
anymore. They have condemnation because they have cast off their faith
(1 Tim. 5:12).
Pat's preaching:
The Way To Heaven, according to the Bible
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover
"Once Saved, Always Saved" IS WRONG
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-.html |
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Carl
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: Justification By Faith Is The End Of Boasting |
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On Nov 12, 12:35 am, thewaytohea...@webtv.net (Pat H) wrote:
| Quote: |
Revelation 3:1-5 - ..."I know your works, that you have a name that you
are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things
which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works
perfect before My God. Remember therefore how you have received and
heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will
come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come
upon you. Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis who have not
defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they
are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I
will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his
name before My Father and before His angels." ~ Note: These people had
the name of being a Christian thinking they had eternal life, but they
had become spiritually dead. Some had the chance to live because He says
they were only ready to die. The term "ready to die" is of eternal
death. They are subject to eternal misery in hell. They were not living
the life of how they first received the word. They had defiled their
garments (by sin) and needed to overcome this to be worthy enough to
eventually walk with Christ in white garments; or else He will blot out
their name from the Book of Life. The word "defiled" is used in the NT
of those who have not kept themselves pure from the defilement of sin,
who have soiled themselves by fornication and adultery. You must
overcome and conquer sin if you fell back into the bondage of it. Repent
and turn back to God for help.
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Revelation 3:1-6 (New International Version)
Revelation 3
To the Church in Sardis
1"To the angel[a] of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[b]of God
and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being
alive, but you are dead. 2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is
about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of
my God. 3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey
it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief,
and you will not know at what time I will come to you. 4Yet you have a
few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk
with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes
will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name
from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father
and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says
to the churches.
The Message to Sardis
"We have met the enemy," Walt Kelly announced a generation ago in his
comic strip Pogo, "and he is us!" The message to Sardis lists no
specific enemies, internal or external. There is no name calling--no
liars, no Balaam or Jezebel, no deep secrets of Satan, no synagogue of
Satan, no throne of Satan. Consequently, of all the congregations in
Asia, we know least about Sardis and its problems. Yet no other
message is more damaging or more urgent than this one. Walt Kelly was
right. Too often, when we encounter no spiritual adversaries, it is
because we are the enemy. The only enemy named at Sardis is the angel
to whom the message is addressed.
Sardis was situated almost directly south of Thyatira, in the
direction of Smyrna and the sea. Its greatest days were behind it, but
this once proud capital of the ancient kingdom of Lydia (later the
western capital of the Persian Empire) was still, under Roman rule, an
important center of the woolen industry. Abundant archaeological
remains include a temple to Artemis, a huge gymnasium and the largest
synagogue yet found in the ancient world, suggesting a Jewish
community numbering in the thousands (Finegan 1981:177-7 . A sermon
of Melito, a Christian bishop at Sardis, entitled On the Passover (see
Hawthorne 1975:147-75), testifies to a spirited, sometimes bitter,
debate with this Jewish community in the second century. Yet as far as
we are told, the problem of the congregation in John's time was not
with the Jews, nor with the Roman Empire, nor with false prophecy, but
solely with itself.
The Speaker's grim indictment of the angel at Sardis swings between
overstatement (3:1) and understatement (v. 2). You are dead (v. 1) is
a dramatic way of saying "you are spiritually asleep" (compare Eph
5:14), for the angel is then told, Wake up! Strengthen what remains
and is about to die (v. 2). The call to awake, and to remember, obey
and repent (v. 3) assumes the real possibility of change. Yet the
milder-sounding words that follow, I have not found your deeds
complete in the sight of my God (v. 2), are deliberately understated,
implying that the angel's works are unacceptable to God, and therefore
a failure (Beckwith 1922: 474; compare Dan 5:27, "You have been
weighed on the scales and found wanting").
This message makes it clear that the angel, like any human leader, is
deeply involved in the life of the congregation. The message recalls
Jesus' words to the faltering Simon Peter in Luke 22:32, "I have
prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have
turned back, strengthen your brothers." This angel, dead or not, has
the responsibility to strengthen what remains and is about to die (v.
2). He functions much like a human pastor, except that what is said to
him is actually said to the congregation as a whole.
Sardis faces a threat: if you do not wake up, I will come like a
thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you (v. 3).
Many (for example, Ramsay 1904:377-78; Mounce 1977:110-11) have tried
to link this pronouncement to certain incidents in the history of
Sardis, when the city was taken unawares by hostile armies. This is
unlikely because (1) these incidents were centuries earlier; (2) the
message is to the Christian congregation, not the city of Sardis; (3)
the image of the thief in connection with a command to "watch" or
"stay awake" was common in early Christianity, based on well-known
sayings of Jesus (see Mt 24:43-44 par. Lk 12:39-40; 1 Thess 5:1). The
warning could as easily have been directed to Ephesus or Laodicea, or
to the unfaithful in any congregation.
The message to Sardis reveals nothing definite about the church's
predicament beyond the fact that it is about to die. Only the
metaphorical reference to those few people in Sardis who have not
soiled their clothes (v. 4) offers a possible clue. They are promised
that they will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy (v.
4), a promise immediately reinforced by a word to those who
"overcome," who will, like them, be dressed in white, whose names will
not be blotted from the book of life, but rather acknowledged before
my Father and his angels (v. 5; compare Mt 10:32-33 par. Lk 12:8-9).
At Sardis, clearly, the few who had not soiled their garments were the
"overcomers."
Clean, white clothing in the book of Revelation is consistently a
symbol of religious and moral purity, especially in the face of
persecution (see 3:18; 4:4; 6:11; 7:9, 13), while soiled or disheveled
clothing, or no clothing at all, is a symbol of religious and moral
impurity and shame (see 3:17-18; 16:15). It is likely that the problem
at Sardis was a strong tendency to compromise Christian faith for the
sake of conformity to social and cultural standards set by Asian
society and the Roman Empire. This spirit of compromise was linked not
to one particular faction in the Christian community (as at Pergamum
and Thyatira) but to the majority. The ones who had not soiled their
clothes had become marginalized. They were the small faction. This
explains the severe tone of the message, but it is impossible to be
more specific as to the exact nature of the compromises made at
Sardis.
[IVP New Testament Commentary]
Revelation 3:1-6
Verses 1-6 Here is, I. The preface, showing, 1. To whom this letter is
directed: To the angel of the church of Sardis, an ancient city of
Lydia, on the banks of the mountain Tmolus, said to have been the
chief city of Asia the Less, and the first city in that part of the
world that was converted by the preaching of John; and, some say, the
first that revolted from Christianity, and one of the first that was
laid in its ruins, in which it still lies, without any church or
ministry. 2. By whom this message was sent—the Lord Jesus, who here
assumes the character of him that hath the seven spirits of God, and
the seven stars, taken out of ch. 1:4, where the seven spirits are
said to be before the throne. (1.) He hath the seven spirits, that is,
the Holy Spirit with his various powers, graces, and operations; for
he is personally one, though efficaciously various, and may be said
here to be seven, which is the number of the churches, and of the
angels of the churches, to show that to every minister, and to every
church, there is a dispensation and measure of the Spirit given for
them to profit withal—a stock of spiritual influence for that minister
and church to improve, both for enlargement and continuance, which
measure of the Spirit is not ordinarily withdrawn from them, till they
forfeit it by misimprovement. Churches have their spiritual stock and
fund, as well as particular believers; and, this epistle being sent to
a languishing ministry and church, they are very fitly put in mind
that Christ has the seven spirits, the Spirit without measure and in
perfection, to whom they may apply themselves for the reviving of his
work among them. (2.) He hath the seven stars, the angels of the
churches; they are disposed of by him, and accountable to him, which
should make them faithful and zealous. He has ministers to employ, and
spiritual influences to communicate to his ministers for the good of
his church. The Holy Spirit usually works by the ministry, and the
ministry will be of no efficacy without the Spirit; the same divine
hand holds them both. II. The body of this epistle. There is this
observable in it, that whereas in the other epistles Christ begins
with commending what is good in the churches, and then proceeds to
tell them what is amiss, in this (and in the epistle to Laodicea) he
begins, 1. With a reproof, and a very severe one: I know thy works,
that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Hypocrisy, and a
lamentable decay in religion, are the sins charged upon this church,
by one who knew her well, and all her works. (1.) This church had
gained a great reputation; it had a name, and a very honourable one,
for a flourishing church, a name for vital lively religion, for purity
of doctrine, unity among themselves, uniformity in worship, decency,
and order. We read not of any unhappy divisions among themselves.
Every thing appeared well, as to what falls under the observation of
men. (2.) This church was not really what it was reputed to be. They
had a name to live, but they were dead; there was a form of godliness,
but not the power, a name to live, but not a principle of life. If
there was not a total privation of life, yet there was a great
deadness in their souls and in their services, a great deadness in the
spirits of their ministers, and a great deadness in their
ministrations, in their praying, in their preaching, in their
converse, and a great deadness in the people in hearing, in prayer,
and in conversation; what little life was yet left among them was, in
a manner, expiring, ready to die. 2. Our Lord proceeds to give this
degenerate church the best advice: Be watchful, and strengthen the
things, etc., v. 2. (1.) He advises them to be upon their watch. The
cause of their sinful deadness and declension was that they had let
down their watch. Whenever we are off our watch, we lose ground, and
therefore must return to our watchfulness against sin, and Satan, and
whatever is destructive to the life and power of godliness. (2.) To
strengthen the things that remain, and that are ready to die. Some
understand this of persons; there were some few who had retained their
integrity, but they were in danger of declining with the rest. It is a
difficult thing to keep up to the life and power of godliness
ourselves, when we see a universal deadness and declension prevailing
round about us. Or it may be understood of practices, as it follows: I
have not found thy works perfect before God, not filled up; there is
something wanting in them; there is the shell, but not the kernel;
there is the carcase, but not the soul—the shadow, but not the
substance. The inward thing is wanting, thy works are hollow and
empty; prayers are not filled up with holy desires, alms-deeds not
filled up with true charity, sabbaths not filled up with suitable
devotion of soul to God; there are not inward affections suitable to
outward acts and expressions. Now when the spirit is wanting the form
cannot long subsist. (3.) To recollect themselves, and remember how
they have received and heard (v. 3); not only to remember what they
had received and heard, what messages they had received from God, what
tokens of his mercy and favour towards them, what sermons they had
heard, but how they had received and heard, what impressions the
mercies of God had made upon their souls at first, what affections
they felt working under their word and ordinances, the love of their
espousals, the kindness of their youth, how welcome the gospel and the
grace of God were to them when they first received them. Where is the
blessedness they then spoke of? (4.) To hold fast what they had
received, that they might not lose all, and repent sincerely that they
had lost so much of the life of religion, and had run the risk of
losing all. 3. Christ enforces his counsel with a dreadful threatening
in case it should be despised: I will come unto thee as a thief, and
thou shalt not know the hour, v. 3. Observe, (1.) When Christ leaves a
people as to his gracious presence, he comes to them in judgment; and
his judicial presence will be very dreadful to those who have sinned
away his gracious presence. (2.) His judicial approach to a dead
declining people will be surprising; their deadness will keep them in
security, and, as it procures an angry visit from Christ to them, it
will prevent their discerning it and preparing for it. (3.) Such a
visit from Christ will be to their loss; he will come as a thief, to
strip them of their remaining enjoyments and mercies, not by fraud,
but in justice and righteousness, taking the forfeiture they have made
of all to him. 4. Our blessed Lord does not leave this sinful people
without some comfort and encouragement: In the midst of judgment he
remembers mercy (v. 4), and here (1.) He makes honourable mention of
the faithful remnant in Sardis, though but small: Thou hast a few
names in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; they had not
given into the prevailing corruptions and pollution of the day and
place in which they lived. God takes notice of the smallest number of
those who abide with him; and the fewer they are the more precious in
his sight. (2.) He makes a very gracious promise to them: They shall
walk with me in white, for they are worthy —in the stola, the white
robes of justification, and adoption, and comfort, or in the white
robes of honour and glory in the other world. They shall walk with
Christ in the pleasant walks of the heavenly paradise; and what
delightful converse will there be between Christ and them when they
thus walk together! This is an honour proper and suitable to their
integrity, which their fidelity has prepared them for, and which it is
no way unbecoming Christ to confer upon them, though it is not a legal
but a gospel worthiness that is ascribed to them, not merit but
meetness. Those who walk with Christ in the clean garments of real
practical holiness here, and keep themselves unspotted from the world,
shall walk with Christ in the white robes of honour and glory in the
other world: this is a suitable reward. III. We now come to the
conclusion of this epistle, in which, as before, we have, 1. A great
reward promised to the conquering Christian (v. 5), and it is very
much the same with what has been already mentioned: He that overcometh
shall be clothed in white raiment. The purity of grace shall be
rewarded with the perfect purity of glory. Holiness, when perfected,
shall be its own reward; glory is the perfection of grace, differing
not in kind, but in degree. Now to this is added another promise very
suitable to the case: I will not blot his name out of the book of
life, but will confess his name before my Father, and before his
angels. Observe, (1.) Christ has his book of life, a register and roll
of all who shall inherit eternal life. [1.] The book of eternal
election. [2.] The book of remembrance of all those who have lived to
God, and have kept up the life and power of godliness in evil times.
(2.) Christ will not blot the names of his chosen and faithful ones
out of this book of life; men may be enrolled in the registers of the
church, as baptized, as making a profession, as having a name to live,
and that name may come to be blotted out of the roll, when it appears
that it was but a name, a name to live, without spiritual life; such
often lose the very name before they die, they are left of God to blot
out their own names by their gross and open wickedness. But the names
of those that overcome shall never be blotted out. (3.) Christ will
produce this book of life, and confess the names of the faithful who
stand there, before God, and all the angels; he will do this as their
Judge, when the books shall be opened; he will do this as their
captain and head, leading them with him triumphantly to heaven,
presenting them to the Father: Behold me, and the children that thou
hast given me. How great will this honour and reward be! 2. The demand
of universal attention finishes the message. Every word from God
deserves attention from men; that which may seem more particularly
directed to one body of men has something in it instructive to all.
[Matthew Henry's Commentary]
Revelation 3:1-5
3:1 The seven spirits of God - The Holy Spirit, from whom alone all
spiritual life and strength proceed. And the seven stars - which are
subordinate to him. Thou hast a name that thou livest - A fair
reputation, a goodly outside appearance. But that Spirit seeth through
all things, and every empty appearance vanishes before him.
3:2 The things which remain - In thy soul; knowledge of the truth,
good desires, and convictions. Which were ready to die - Wherever
pride, indolence, or levity revives, all the fruits of the Spirit are
ready to die.
3:3 Remember how - Humbly, zealously, seriously. Thou didst receive
the grace of God once, and hear - His word. And hold fast - The grace
thou hast received. And repent - According to the word thou hast
heard.
3:4 Yet thou hast a few names - That is, persons. But though few,
they had not separated themselves from the rest; otherwise, the angel
of Sardis would not have had them. Yet it was no virtue of his, that
they were unspotted; whereas it was his fault that they were but few.
Who have not defiled their garments - Either by spotting themselves,
or by partaking of other men's sins. They shall walk with me in white
- in joy; in perfect holiness; in glory. They are worthy - A few good
among many bad are doubly acceptable to God. O how much happier is
this worthiness than that mentioned, Revelation 16:6.
3:5 He shall be clothed in white raiment - The colour of victory,
joy, and triumph. And I will not blot his name out of the book of life
- Like that of the angel of the church at Sardis: but he shall live
for ever. I will confess his name - As one of my faithful servants and
soldiers.
[John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible]
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/ |
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Pat H
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Justification By Faith Is The End Of Boasting - who boas |
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The issue is boasting about doing the OT Law of works to be saved. Do
you know of people who do that? I've known some wanna-be righteous
Christians say we are to do the law, but they don't know what they are
talking about.
They refer to Matthew 5:17,18 but in the Gospel according to Luke where
this is recorded, the verse right before that is this: "The law and the
prophets were until John." (Luke 16:16). So in the detailed Gospel
(Luke), He already explained that the law is done away with.
The OT law was temporary: What purpose then does the law serve? It was
added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the
promise was made... - Galatians 3:19.
having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of
commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new
man from the two, thus making peace - Ephesians 2:15.
having wiped out the handwriting of the requirements that was against
us, which was contrary to us. And he has taken it out of the way, having
nailed it to the cross - Colossians 2:14.
Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the
body of Christ, that you may be married to another -- to Him who was
raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God - Romans 7:4.
...and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned
aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding
neither what they say nor the things which they affirm - 1 Tim. 1:5-7.
Galatians 5:4,7 - You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt
to be justified by law (the O.T. law); you have fallen from grace... You
ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? ~ Note: The KJV has
Christ is become of no effect unto you. The Greek words are apo and
katargeo. Apo also means of any kind of separation of one thing from
another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed.
Katargeo also means destroy, loose, to cause a person or thing to have
no further efficiency, to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with,
annul, abolish. The word for fallen from also means to fall from a
thing, to lose it, to perish, and to fall powerless, be without effect
regarding of the divine promise of salvation. Obviously those who have
fallen from grace were running well (the race of faith, 2 Tim. 4:7) and
obeying the truth at some earlier time, but then they fell from grace.
Pat's preaching:
The Way To Heaven, according to the Bible
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover
"Once Saved, Always Saved" IS WRONG
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-.html |
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Carl
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:03 am Post subject: Re: The Truth About Tongues - if U don't pray in tongues U d |
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On Dec 2, 9:00 pm, thewaytohea...@webtv.net (Pat H) wrote:
| Quote: | Carl if you are a Baptist then you probably don't know what you are
talking about because you likely don't pray in tongues.
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Non sequitur, Pat. For someone who brags on their spiritual maturity
and superior intellect you certainly commit elementary logical
fallacies.
Nothing in scripture teaches that we are to pray in tongues. Nothing
in scripture says speaking in tongues is required for salvation.
Nothing in scripture says speaking in tongues is the main, primary or
even secondary sign of salvation. It is arguable whether glossolalia
even exists in this age. However, if it does, there are clear Biblical
guidelines for what constitutes true tongue speaking of which does not
occur in such vain babblings ongoing in the United Pentecostal Church
for example and by most of the name-it-and-claim it false teachers
such as Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Paul Crouch, etc. When you speak in
tongues is it a normal language, spoken somewhere on earth, but not
learned by the linguistic processes by which we ordinarily learn
languages; yet it is clearly understandable by anyone who would happen
to speak that language? Or is it some unknown tongue in the sense that
it is different from any language spoken on earth? If it is the
latter, then that is false tongues and not of God. All the glossolalia
that I and many Christians have witnessed in this age is nothing but
gibberish, stammering, stuttering, or repetitious sounds. Therefore
what passes for tongues today fails the Biblical rules. [Credit: Ray
Stedman]
I have never spoken in tongues. In your "spiritually mature" opinion,
am I saved? If I never pray in tongues, does Jesus refuse to take
those prayers to our heavenly Father? How do you explain all the
answered prayers in my life?
You seem to have issues with Baptists and the Baptist denomination.
Prideful issues apparently. If I may be so bold, of what denomination
are you a member?
Finally, since I have failed to see you address any of the points in
Dr. MacArthur's sermons on tongues (nor any other Christian article,
lesson, sermon from various Christian theologians) may I conclude you
did not actually READ them?
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/ |
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Bob Officer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Gays, PRO-Choice Women, and All Egalitarians -- Let's Co |
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:54:23 -0800 (PST), in alt.abortion,
--sexkitten-- <ladyhawk.two@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Dec 2, 9:19 am, "Ike9" <xeickleberrybo...@msn.com> wrote:
"(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) NO FACTS Support RRR Cult's Hate-Agendas! "<xanadu2...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:rsp8j4tplj310geo6s2u9d1u31ud3avrvt@4ax.com...
Gays, PRO-Choice Women, and All Egalitarians --
In other words, Satanists.
Ike
Ike10! Paging Mr. Ike10! Please meet your party at the killfile, Mr.
Ike10.
Good grief, moron, take a hint.
|
Ike is rather dense. he would like to believe he has some place in
this discussion. He is just too stupid to participate.
--
John D. aka Stupid Wentzky in <XisNj.23413$Q52.18031@bignews9.bellsouth.net>
stated WRT the sex offenders register in South Carolina
"Some idiot in the pinko commie tax leech business group, at the expense of
the people, tried to get me to register on that unconsstitutional bullshit
list"
and in Message <ZsuNj.2183$tG6.112@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
Stupid wrote:
"By telling that fool that i was NOT reuqired to register.
It is written in plain english," |
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Bob Officer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: Re: answer to chilton |
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On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:33:51 -0600, in alt.abortion, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:44:42 -0800, Bob Officer <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote:
Scriptural Betrothal:
Romantic relationship following publicly announced, irrevocable commitment to
marriage; allows couple to "fall in love" before marriage, but after commitment
is made
You making stuff up as you go, The concept of a woman falling in love
didn't exist.
There's the definition, bad odor.
|
Where, I only see shit you make up.
Mary as betrothed to Joseph didn't have the right to agree to gods
offer to be the father of Jesus. AS a dutiful daughter, she must obey
and the contract between her biological father and her husband to be.
Love never enters into the picture, Duke. Mary was betrothed to
Joseph. God/holy spirit committed a sinful act by seducing Mary.
Jesus wasn't perfect and born of a sinful act.
The entire basis of the Jesus myth is based upon multiple lies and
falsehoods.
--
John D. aka Stupid Wentzky in <XisNj.23413$Q52.18031@bignews9.bellsouth.net>
stated WRT the sex offenders register in South Carolina
"Some idiot in the pinko commie tax leech business group, at the expense of
the people, tried to get me to register on that unconsstitutional bullshit
list"
and in Message <ZsuNj.2183$tG6.112@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
Stupid wrote:
"By telling that fool that i was NOT reuqired to register.
It is written in plain english," |
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Pat H
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: The Truth About Tongues - if U don't pray in tongues U d |
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Carl if you are a Baptist then you probably don't know what you are
talking about because you likely don't pray in tongues.
Acts 19:1-6 - ... Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to
Ephesus. And findng some disciples he said to them, "Did you receive the
Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so
much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." And he said to them,
"Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism."
Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance,
saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come
after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." When they heard his, they were
baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on
them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and
prophesied.
Now there are 3 different types of speaking in tongues. The people who
don't speak in tongues and say it is only for some, only think it is
given as one of the spiritual gifts. But that is not the everyday (not
that I do it everyday, just wheneever I want to pray in tongues I can)
praying in tongues that goes with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The
3rd type of speaking in tongues is singing with it.
1 Corinthians 14:1-5 - Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but
especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not
speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the
spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and
exhortation and comfort to men. He who speaks in a tongue edifies
himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke
with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies
is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets,
that the church may receive edification. ~ Note: This is talking about
tongues being one of the spiritual gifts, but I have yet to do that with
the interpretation, even though I pray and sing in tongues as a result
of being baptized into the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:15 - What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the
spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with
the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
Acts 8:14-17 - Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,
who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive
the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had
only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands
on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. ~ Note: Here you see the
Holy Spirit getting transferred from the apostles to others. They were
fulfilling "The Great Commission." It wasn't just for them.
Acts 10:44-46 - While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy
Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the
circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter,
becauase the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles
also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. ~ Note:
Even though here it is referred to as a gift instead of the promise,
this is not referring to tongues as being one of the spirtual gifts.
This is the basic being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Peter then retold the story:
Acts 11:15-18 - "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon
them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the
Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be
baptized with the Holy Spirit.' If therefore God gave them the same gift
as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that
I could withstand God?"
Acts 1:4,5,8 - And being assembled together with them, He commanded them
not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father,
"which," He said, "you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with
water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from
now." ... "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come
upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all
Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Acts 2:39 - For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all
who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.
My friends, if you are a born-again Christian, this promise is for you.
Whoever says tongues aren't for today does not know God's word here. God
gives the Holy Spirit upon us, with the evidence of speaking in tongues,
in different ways. Some people speak in tongues right away, and some it
takes a while. For me it took a little while. When I heard about this, I
wanted to have it. I asked for it through prayer, and people laid hands
on me to impart it to me, but I just stood there and did nothing and
felt kinda stupid. But they told me that not everyone speaks in tongues
right away, but it would come.
You see, I thought God was going to make it just come out of me. I
didn't understand that I had to put the effort of making the sounds come
out of me. About 2 weeks later, I found myself speaking in tongues. It
was strange at first and I wasn't sure if I really had it, but when I
talked and prayed with an older gentleman, he assured me that I had it.
As you saw in the Scriptures, you can get it from just hearing God's
word or by having someone lay hands on you. You might need to be around
it to hear it before you actually start speaking in tongues. If you
don't have it, and you have studied the Bible, surely you know there has
to be more, because God's word says so.
Glory to God, I got it. Praise the Lord.
From my page:
The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/HolySpirit.html
Pat's preaching:
The Way To Heaven, according to the Bible
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover
"Once Saved, Always Saved" IS WRONG
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-.html |
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kim
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: Re: The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder |
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On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 20:03:38 -0800 (PST), Mobius_S_Pretzel@yahoo.com
wrote:
| Quote: | Product Description:
Famed Charles Manson prosecutor and three time #1 New York Times
bestselling author Vincent Bugliosi has written the most powerful,
explosive, and thought-provoking book of his storied career.
In The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder, Bugliosi presents a
tight, meticulously researched legal case that puts George W. Bush on
trial in an American courtroom for the murder of nearly 4,000 American
soldiers fighting the war in Iraq. Bugliosi sets forth the legal
architecture and incontrovertible evidence that President Bush took
this nation to war in Iraq under false pretenses—a war that has not
only caused the deaths of American soldiers but also over 100,000
innocent Iraqi men, women, and children; cost the United States over
one trillion dollars thus far with no end in sight; and alienated many
American allies in the Western world.
As a prosecutor who is dedicated to seeking justice, Bugliosi, in his
inimitable style, delivers a non-partisan argument, free from party
lines and instead based upon hard facts and pure objectivity.
A searing indictment of the President and his administration, The
Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder also outlines a legally
credible pathway to holding our highest government officials
accountable for their actions, thereby creating a framework for future
occupants of the oval office.
Vincent Bugliosi calls for the United States of America to return to
the great nation it once was and can be again. He believes the first
step to achieving this goal is to bring those responsible for the war
in Iraq to justice.
http://www.amazon.com/Prosecution-George-W-Bush-Murder/dp/B001IWO88O/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228190299&sr=8-1
|
Highly doubtful he would get caught here in the U.S.A. But if the
numbnut goes to most other countries, his ass is grass. |
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Carl
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Baptists & Mike Painter I have many so-called OSAS verse |
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"Pat H" <thewaytoheaven@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:439-49286A4B-165@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
| Quote: | Bring on the "Once Saved, Always Saved" teachers. If you can't bring
them here, then post their teachings here for me to tear apart. You take
the EASY WAY OUT of having to discus the issue, but me, I know the Bible
pretty good, and the Bible DOES tell us right NOW who is right and who
is wrong.
|
Pat, if you truly wish to "tear apart" the teachings of those of whom you
disagree, then contact them directly yourself. Some of them may even take
you up on your challenge. Otherwise, you're being very spiritually immature
with these childish attacks.
You may think you know the Bible "pretty good" but thus far, you are off the
mark on some Biblical points. Since you have issues with Baptists and the
Baptist denomination and since you tend to make sweeping generalizations
which are also off the mark concerning Baptists, perhaps it would behoove
you to contact noted Baptist teachers via various Baptist seminaries so you
would at least understand what Baptists believe. There are plenty listed
online (one site that has a list with links is at
http://www.baptistlife.com/seminaries/). I've had success contacting various
professors with specific questions (New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
has been a very good resource for me as has been the Wake Forest School Of
Divinity and Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary), and I imagine if
you tried, there would be some who would be more than happy to answer any
sincerely asked question.
If I may be so bold, I would like to know where you received any formal or
informal training in textual criticism, Biblical languages (Biblical Hebrew
& Koine Greek specifically), Biblical studies, exegetical studies. Or do you
consider yourself "self-taught"?
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/ |
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Ike9
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: Re: answer to chilton |
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"Bob Officer" <bobofficers@127.0.0.7> wrote in message
news:m2nbj49in7aesi243bokr731is1ljfhjcu@4ax.com...
[snip]
| Quote: | Love never enters into the picture, Duke. Mary was betrothed to
Joseph. God/holy spirit committed a sinful act by seducing Mary.
|
LLLLLOOOOOLLLLL
[snip]
Ike |
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(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯)
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Gays, PRO-Choice Women, and All Egalitarians -- Let's Co |
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Gays, PRO-Choice Women, and All Egalitarians --
Let's Compile and Compare TALKING POINTS in this Thread!
We have the BEST opportunity EVER, now that Obama and a
strongly-Democratic Congress have been elected, to DEFEAT
the RRR Cult and relegate their hate-agendas to oblivion in
EXTINCTION, forevermore.
So let's put our heads together and share strategies and tactics
for getting that done!
Here are some good talking points to start things off! ---
http://www.roadrat.com/Ending-the-RRR/
-- (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯)
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me. (Tell me first, in here.)
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry.
http://www.roadrat.com/RRR -- A Cause for CELEBRATION!!
http://www.roadrat.com/RRR -- FREE BUMPER STICKERS!! |
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Charlie Chan
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: George W. Bush Belongs in Prison |
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| God bless America! |
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john w
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: The Truth About Tongues - if U don't pray in tongues U d |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:00:05 -0800, thewaytoheaven@webtv.net (Pat H)
wrote:
© 2008 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.
| Quote: | Carl if you are a Baptist then you probably don't know what you are
talking about because you likely don't pray in tongues.
|
No one "prays in tongues." This was strictly a metaphor, and you
didn't get the metaphor.
john w
| Quote: |
Acts 19:1-6 - ... Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to
Ephesus. And findng some disciples he said to them, "Did you receive the
Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so
much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." And he said to them,
"Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism."
Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance,
saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come
after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." When they heard his, they were
baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on
them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and
prophesied.
Now there are 3 different types of speaking in tongues. The people who
don't speak in tongues and say it is only for some, only think it is
given as one of the spiritual gifts. But that is not the everyday (not
that I do it everyday, just wheneever I want to pray in tongues I can)
praying in tongues that goes with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The
3rd type of speaking in tongues is singing with it.
1 Corinthians 14:1-5 - Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but
especially that you may prophesy. For he who speaks in a tongue does not
speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the
spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and
exhortation and comfort to men. He who speaks in a tongue edifies
himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke
with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies
is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets,
that the church may receive edification. ~ Note: This is talking about
tongues being one of the spiritual gifts, but I have yet to do that with
the interpretation, even though I pray and sing in tongues as a result
of being baptized into the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:15 - What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the
spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with
the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
Acts 8:14-17 - Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that
Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,
who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive
the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had
only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands
on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. ~ Note: Here you see the
Holy Spirit getting transferred from the apostles to others. They were
fulfilling "The Great Commission." It wasn't just for them.
Acts 10:44-46 - While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy
Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the
circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter,
becauase the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles
also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. ~ Note:
Even though here it is referred to as a gift instead of the promise,
this is not referring to tongues as being one of the spirtual gifts.
This is the basic being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Peter then retold the story:
Acts 11:15-18 - "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon
them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the
Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be
baptized with the Holy Spirit.' If therefore God gave them the same gift
as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that
I could withstand God?"
Acts 1:4,5,8 - And being assembled together with them, He commanded them
not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father,
"which," He said, "you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with
water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from
now." ... "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come
upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all
Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Acts 2:39 - For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all
who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.
My friends, if you are a born-again Christian, this promise is for you.
Whoever says tongues aren't for today does not know God's word here. God
gives the Holy Spirit upon us, with the evidence of speaking in tongues,
in different ways. Some people speak in tongues right away, and some it
takes a while. For me it took a little while. When I heard about this, I
wanted to have it. I asked for it through prayer, and people laid hands
on me to impart it to me, but I just stood there and did nothing and
felt kinda stupid. But they told me that not everyone speaks in tongues
right away, but it would come.
You see, I thought God was going to make it just come out of me. I
didn't understand that I had to put the effort of making the sounds come
out of me. About 2 weeks later, I found myself speaking in tongues. It
was strange at first and I wasn't sure if I really had it, but when I
talked and prayed with an older gentleman, he assured me that I had it.
As you saw in the Scriptures, you can get it from just hearing God's
word or by having someone lay hands on you. You might need to be around
it to hear it before you actually start speaking in tongues. If you
don't have it, and you have studied the Bible, surely you know there has
to be more, because God's word says so.
Glory to God, I got it. Praise the Lord.
From my page:
The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/HolySpirit.html
Pat's preaching:
The Way To Heaven, according to the Bible
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover
"Once Saved, Always Saved" IS WRONG
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-.html |
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Robibnikoff
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: The Truth About Tongues - if U don't pray in tongues U d |
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"john w @yahoo.com>" <j<no> wrote in message
news:etscj4denre57k4g4qvla42guv6at0ai54@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 18:00:05 -0800, thewaytoheaven@webtv.net (Pat H)
wrote:
Carl if you are a Baptist then you probably don't know what you are
talking about because you likely don't pray in tongues.
No one "prays in tongues."
|
How do you know, johnnie?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
If you can't be a good example....
You'll just have to be a horrible warning. |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: George W. Bush Belongs in Prison |
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On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 04:18:27 -0800 (PST), Möbius Pretzel
<M0bius_A_Pretzel@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | To ensure that no future president behaves like George W. Bush we must
punish him.
|
Not to worry. The green black man o'boy will never be a great president like
George Bush.
O'boy's so weak that he had to hire 'rat willie's old staff and his wife, no
less.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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