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Sanders Kaufman
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 Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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"Jack" <furgfurgfurg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8-SdnYAMXKvpvDHVnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@posted.echolabs...
| Quote: | "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
If schooling is getting in the way of praying in school - it's not the
schooling that should go - it's the praying.
There's no need for an all or nothing reaction to something that will only
take 60 seconds.
|
There is no appeasing religious zealots.
Given an inch, they will take a dozen miles - and still demand much, much
more.
School prayer isn't the only thing religious freaks are demanding.
Here in Texas, they're demanding that we accept church attendance as school
credit. |
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Alpa Chino
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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In article <8-SdnYAMXKvpvDHVnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@posted.echolabs>, Jack
<furgfurgfurg@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:ODIqk.18722$mh5.6375@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Jack" <furgfurgfurg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BbudnatSYJ-xmjbVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@posted.echolabs...
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
And why should anyone be compelled to be silent while you morons carry
on a one-way conversation with your imaginary friend?
There is a social element to praying in groups that would be disrupted
would be one reason.
If schooling is getting in the way of praying in school - it's not the
schooling that should go - it's the praying.
There's no need for an all or nothing reaction to something that will only
take 60 seconds.
|
Whatever that means. What's the point of typing something if you can't
explain your position? |
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Alpa Chino
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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In article <o%2rk.17321$LG4.7494@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com>, Sanders Kaufman
<bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "Jack" <furgfurgfurg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8-SdnYAMXKvpvDHVnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@posted.echolabs...
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
If schooling is getting in the way of praying in school - it's not the
schooling that should go - it's the praying.
There's no need for an all or nothing reaction to something that will only
take 60 seconds.
There is no appeasing religious zealots.
Given an inch, they will take a dozen miles - and still demand much, much
more.
School prayer isn't the only thing religious freaks are demanding.
Here in Texas, they're demanding that we accept church attendance as school
credit.
|
Sadly, religion takes its toll of both the world and America.
Fortunately for Europe they seem to have a reasonable grip on religion.
Here in the United States, the religious zealots are out of control. It
is ruining our country and our government. Religion has always been a
problem, but with the advent of cable television and the Internet it is
getting truly out of control. I can think of a solution for many
problems in this country. However I cannot think of a solution for the
problem of religion. |
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Sanders Kaufman
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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"Alpa Chino" <alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:230820081109086261%alpachn55@gmail.com...
| Quote: | I can think of a solution for many
problems in this country. However I cannot think of a solution for the
problem of religion.
|
I can think of several.
For example, currently priests cannot be compelled to divulge what happens
in the confessional.
Take that away.
For another, churches are exempt from a multitude of taxes - take that away.
For another, churches enjoy government funding in a variety of ways - take
that away, too.
End public funding for them, tax them, and take away their immunity from our
laws - that'll solve the bulk of the problem. |
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Alpa Chino
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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In article <VKZrk.19134$mh5.4739@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>, Sanders Kaufman
<bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "Alpa Chino" <alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:230820081109086261%alpachn55@gmail.com...
I can think of a solution for many
problems in this country. However I cannot think of a solution for the
problem of religion.
I can think of several.
For example, currently priests cannot be compelled to divulge what happens
in the confessional.
|
I don't see how compelling priests to divulge their confidences will
solve the problem of religion.
| Quote: | Take that away.
For another, churches are exempt from a multitude of taxes - take that away.
|
Again, I don't see how that is going to solve the problem of religion.
| Quote: | For another, churches enjoy government funding in a variety of ways - take
that away, too.
|
Same as above.
| Quote: |
End public funding for them, tax them, and take away their immunity from our
laws - that'll solve the bulk of the problem.
|
No, it will not. The problem of religion is that people are
superstitious. Unfortunately, until people become more enlightened and
less superstitious problem will exist. |
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Sanders Kaufman
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:04 am Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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"Alpa Chino" <alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:230820082229527248%alpachn55@gmail.com...
| Quote: | In article <VKZrk.19134$mh5.4739@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>, Sanders Kaufman
For example, currently priests cannot be compelled to divulge what
happens
in the confessional.
I don't see how compelling priests to divulge their confidences will
solve the problem of religion.
|
By itself, it won't.
It's just one of a great many things that must be done to protect Americans
from the religious freaks.
For example, it would have done much to lessen the damage in the pedophile
priest scandal.
For decades, these worst-of-the-worst predators hid behind the
penitent/priest exemption.
The priests were able to protect each other by invoking this undeserved
privilege.
| Quote: | The problem of religion is that people are
superstitious. Unfortunately, until people become more enlightened and
less superstitious problem will exist.
|
Perhaps, but in THIS country, we have an affirmative duty to provide for the
common defense and to promote the general welfare.
So we can't just sit on our hands and wait for folks to come around. |
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Attila
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:51:45 -0400, "Jack" <furgfurgfurg@yahoo.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<8-SdnYAMXKvpvDHVnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@posted.echolabs> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote in message
news:ODIqk.18722$mh5.6375@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Jack" <furgfurgfurg@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BbudnatSYJ-xmjbVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@posted.echolabs...
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
And why should anyone be compelled to be silent while you morons carry
on a one-way conversation with your imaginary friend?
There is a social element to praying in groups that would be disrupted
would be one reason.
If schooling is getting in the way of praying in school - it's not the
schooling that should go - it's the praying.
There's no need for an all or nothing reaction to something that will only
take 60 seconds.
|
Is there any doubt this '60 seconds' exists only in a religious
context? It is intended to give religion a legal doorway into the
schools and has no other purpose.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
Support H.R. 1940: Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007 |
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Attila
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:29:52 -0700, Alpa Chino <alpachn55@gmail.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<230820082229527248%alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <VKZrk.19134$mh5.4739@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>, Sanders Kaufman
bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
"Alpa Chino" <alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:230820081109086261%alpachn55@gmail.com...
I can think of a solution for many
problems in this country. However I cannot think of a solution for the
problem of religion.
I can think of several.
For example, currently priests cannot be compelled to divulge what happens
in the confessional.
I don't see how compelling priests to divulge their confidences will
solve the problem of religion.
Take that away.
For another, churches are exempt from a multitude of taxes - take that away.
Again, I don't see how that is going to solve the problem of religion.
For another, churches enjoy government funding in a variety of ways - take
that away, too.
Same as above.
End public funding for them, tax them, and take away their immunity from our
laws - that'll solve the bulk of the problem.
No, it will not. The problem of religion is that people are
superstitious. Unfortunately, until people become more enlightened and
less superstitious problem will exist.
|
Changing the tax laws would go a long way toward ending religious
organizations.
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
Support H.R. 1940: Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007 |
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RhymeCon
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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On Aug 13, 12:48 am, "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's
Loathsome Agendas: Extinction!" <xanadu2...@mchsi.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 00:35:29 -0400,
"Jon Young"/"IBen Getiner"" <Jvisi...@live.com> AGAIN
PARROTED the RRR Cult:
What exactly are ultra-liberals afraid of? No one is being
compelled to pray.
No social liberal that I've ever known, myself included, has
any objection to "moments of silence." After all, a person
can quietly do or think whatever he wants during those times.
Some may choose to pray. So what? Harmless! Because NO
one is being FORCED to use the time for that purpose, and
thus there is NO violation of the principl;e of the separation
of church and state.
Of course, the GOOD news in all of this is the fact that the
so-called "Alliance Defense Fund" (of the RRR Cult) totally
WASTED a lot of time, money, and energy dealing with this
triviality, which are resources that they did NOT get to spend
fighting actual personal liberties.
LOL!!! Works for me!!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu...@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL..
http://apifar.blogspot.com-- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry..
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com-- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry..
|
Of course, the GOOD news in all of this is the fact that the
so-called "Alliance Defense Fund" (of the RRR Cult) totally
WASTED a lot of time, money, and energy dealing with this
triviality, which are resources that they did NOT get to spend
fighting actual personal liberties.
I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand. Here I was thinking that it
wasn't any kind of cult that brought this to court. I thought it was
some parents (non-theists, which is their business) who thought their
kids would be damaged by the possibility that some kid next to them
might be praying! But if I'm wrong it certianly seems odd that poeple
who wanted the "minute of silence law" would go to the time, money,
and energy of trying to overturn it.
RhymeCon |
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SkyEyes
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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On Aug 24, 3:35 am, Attila <<procho...@here.now> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:29:52 -0700, Alpa Chino <alpach...@gmail.com
in alt.abortion with message-id
230820082229527248%alpach...@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <VKZrk.19134$mh5.4...@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>, Sanders Kaufman
bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
"Alpa Chino" <alpach...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:230820081109086261%alpachn55@gmail.com...
I can think of a solution for many
problems in this country. However I cannot think of a solution for the
problem of religion.
I can think of several.
For example, currently priests cannot be compelled to divulge what happens
in the confessional.
I don't see how compelling priests to divulge their confidences will
solve the problem of religion.
Take that away.
For another, churches are exempt from a multitude of taxes - take that away.
Again, I don't see how that is going to solve the problem of religion.
For another, churches enjoy government funding in a variety of ways - take
that away, too.
Same as above.
End public funding for them, tax them, and take away their immunity from our
laws - that'll solve the bulk of the problem.
No, it will not. The problem of religion is that people are
superstitious. Unfortunately, until people become more enlightened and
less superstitious problem will exist.
Changing the tax laws would go a long way toward ending religious
organizations.
|
Absolutely. And oddly enough, both of my devoutly christian
Republican parents were in favor of abolishing tax breaks for
churches. That means that their unseemly benefit from the public tax
dollar is *really* blatant.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net |
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Alpa Chino
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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|
In article <g9e2b4dc2bpd9r65ntsl9pmr8hc18io7l0@4ax.com>, Attila
<prochoice@here.now> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:29:52 -0700, Alpa Chino <alpachn55@gmail.com
in alt.abortion with message-id
230820082229527248%alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <VKZrk.19134$mh5.4739@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>, Sanders Kaufman
bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
"Alpa Chino" <alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:230820081109086261%alpachn55@gmail.com...
I can think of a solution for many
problems in this country. However I cannot think of a solution for the
problem of religion.
I can think of several.
For example, currently priests cannot be compelled to divulge what happens
in the confessional.
I don't see how compelling priests to divulge their confidences will
solve the problem of religion.
Take that away.
For another, churches are exempt from a multitude of taxes - take that
away.
Again, I don't see how that is going to solve the problem of religion.
For another, churches enjoy government funding in a variety of ways - take
that away, too.
Same as above.
End public funding for them, tax them, and take away their immunity from
our
laws - that'll solve the bulk of the problem.
No, it will not. The problem of religion is that people are
superstitious. Unfortunately, until people become more enlightened and
less superstitious problem will exist.
Changing the tax laws would go a long way toward ending religious
organizations.
|
Perhaps, but would do nothing to eliminate religion. |
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| Back to top |
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
|
|
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:11:50 -0700 (PDT),
RhymeCon <bob4@neo.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome
Agendas: Extinction!" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Jon Young"/"IBen Getiner"" <Jvisi...@live.com> AGAIN
PARROTED the RRR Cult:
|
| Quote: | What exactly are ultra-liberals afraid of? No one is being
compelled to pray.
No social liberal that I've ever known, myself included, has
any objection to "moments of silence." After all, a person
can quietly do or think whatever he wants during those times.
Some may choose to pray. So what? Harmless! Because NO
one is being FORCED to use the time for that purpose, and
thus there is NO violation of the principl;e of the separation
of church and state.
Of course, the GOOD news in all of this is the fact that the
so-called "Alliance Defense Fund" (of the RRR Cult) totally
WASTED a lot of time, money, and energy dealing with this
triviality, which are resources that they did NOT get to spend
fighting actual personal liberties.
LOL!!! Works for me!!
I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand. Here I was thinking that it
wasn't any kind of cult that brought this to court. I thought it was
some parents (non-theists, which is their business) who thought their
kids would be damaged by the possibility that some kid next to them
might be praying! But if I'm wrong it certianly seems odd that poeple
who wanted the "minute of silence law" would go to the time, money,
and energy of trying to overturn it.
|
Never underestimate the idiocy of the RRR Cult. If it oligarchical
leaders think that they could win some sort of "victory" over common
sense, as we saw them doing here, they almost always jump at it.
Especially if they can hatefully demonize atheists, or stomp on their
personal liberties.
Here's some background I wrote a couple of years ago about the
RRR Cult:
There are two types of "fundies" in Christianity:
(1) NON-impositional fundamentalists who take most
of the Bible literally (i.e., all but the parts that are
clearly meant to be allegorical, or are likely so.) They
tend to be pretty well-versed, and thus knows what
the Bible contains... and what it does NOT contain.
For example, they know that it does NOT contain
so much as one word against abortion. And they
know that it does NOT contain ANY passage that
appoints ANYONE to be the ENFORCERS of its
precepts.
And they know that it DOES contain a COMMAND
by Jesus to His followers that they show love and
compassion to their neighbors. A command that is
second ONLY to the command that they FIRST love
God. This is a *clear* command, oft-repeated.
(Gal. 5:14, Matt. 22:37-40, Mark 12:31, Gal. 6:2,
Romans 13:8, and 13:9-10.)
Such fundamentalists usually live quiet and normal
lives, and are non-judgmental, fair-minded, and tolerant
people who mind their own business when it comes
to the private affairs of others. Almost never will a
buttinsky, busybody, or control freak be found among
them.
(2) The RRR Cultist, pseudo-Christian "fundie." This
denizen of the Religious Radical Right is a deluded
Christian at best, and *literally* a PSEUDO-Christian
at worst. They tend to be relatively uneducated when
compared to the general population. And their
seduction into this cult that infiltrates churches and
leaves its adherents in place *within* those churches,
was usually easily-accomplished, because the false
dogmas of the cult have great appeal to them. They
first are conned into thinking that abortion is wrong,
which is no big trick because it once was a topic
that (unfortunately) had a bad rep in society... back
when it was still illegal in most places, and women
were getting "back-alley" ones.
Many, if not most, of these "fundies" are quite
insecure people in their own lives, and the notion
that they can *control* people appeals to them, even
if only at the subconscious level. In fact, in most
such cases, it is *probably* at the subconscious level.
They are usually NOT particularly well-versed in the
Bible, but sometimes *seem* to be to others because
they've done a good job of learning the verses that
SEEM to be supportive of their deviant agenda (even
though NO passage actually DOES support them).
In other words, they practice "cafeteria theology" and
IGNORE passages that *condemn* their actions (such
as those cited above). It's pretty hard to seek to
impose immense hardship upon tens of millions of
women by denying the remedy of abortion to them,
which would disrupt their well-being and trash countless
of their future opportunities... WHILE claiming to show
love and compassion to their neighbors. And they are
so totally programmed that they would not THINK of
questioning their leaders regarding the false dogmas
of the RRR Cult. E.g., one will *never* be seen
asking James Dobson, D. James Kennedy, or Jerry
Falwell (to name 3 of the 8 or so leaders)... "WHERE
does the Bible instruct us, or authorize us, to attempt
to ENFORCE its precepts upon society?" That is
totally alien to the brainwashed and programmed
nature of cultists, and you'll never see it happen.
The pseudo-Christian "fundies" of the RRR Cult
are very destructive to Christianity as a whole, because
even though they comprise less than 2% of America's
Christians (and practically none of those in the rest of
the world), they cloak themselves in the mantle of
Christianity, and their high-profile antics and protesta-
tions give the false impression to much of society that
they are REPRESENTATIVE of Christians. While
nothing could be farther than the truth. 98% of U.S.
Christians BEHAVE in the manner of the TRUE
Christian "fundies" in part (1), above, even though
most of them are mainstream Christians and not
"fundies." SO -- Christianity is getting a VERY unfair
bad rap as a result of that growing misperception.
The RRR Cult "fundies," then, are dysfunctional,
control-freakish busybodies. Whether there's such
a thing as a "Buttinsky Gene," are whether its due
to ignorance, gullibility, or both, is immaterial. Their
agenda is sociopathic and their behavior is most
assuredly UN-Christian.
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
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Sanders Kaufman
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
|
|
"Alpa Chino" <alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:240820080853370605%alpachn55@gmail.com...
| Quote: | In article <g9e2b4dc2bpd9r65ntsl9pmr8hc18io7l0@4ax.com>, Attila
prochoice@here.now> wrote:
Changing the tax laws would go a long way toward ending religious
organizations.
Perhaps, but would do nothing to eliminate religion.
|
Obama addressed that very issue in the Saddleback interviews
There was a question about if there is evil in the world, and "should we
confront it".
McCain foolishly answered that he would "defeat" evil - which even Jesus H.
Christ failed to do.
Obama said that it would be hubris to think that we can defeat it, but that
it must be confronted.
No - we cannot "eliminate" religion, not without wiping out the entire human
race.
But we have a moral obligation to confront religion. |
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Alpa Chino
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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In article <8pisk.18800$cW3.11561@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, Sanders
Kaufman <bucky@kaufman.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "Alpa Chino" <alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:240820080853370605%alpachn55@gmail.com...
In article <g9e2b4dc2bpd9r65ntsl9pmr8hc18io7l0@4ax.com>, Attila
prochoice@here.now> wrote:
Changing the tax laws would go a long way toward ending religious
organizations.
Perhaps, but would do nothing to eliminate religion.
Obama addressed that very issue in the Saddleback interviews
There was a question about if there is evil in the world, and "should we
confront it".
|
I stupid question and an equally stupid answer.
| Quote: | McCain foolishly answered that he would "defeat" evil - which even Jesus H.
Christ failed to do.
|
At least, so they say.
| Quote: | Obama said that it would be hubris to think that we can defeat it, but that
it must be confronted.
|
I think we have more important things to confront.
| Quote: |
No - we cannot "eliminate" religion, not without wiping out the entire human
race.
|
We need to encourage people to think. Anyone who does that realizes
how silly religion really is.
| Quote: | But we have a moral obligation to confront religion.
|
I'm a little fuzzy on this whole "moral obligation" thing. |
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Attila
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Re: ADF Defends Moment of Silence in Texas Schools |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:13:15 -0700, Alpa Chino <alpachn55@gmail.com>
in alt.abortion with message-id
<240820081513158660%alpachn55@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
But we have a moral obligation to confront religion.
I'm a little fuzzy on this whole "moral obligation" thing.
|
Almost everybody who refers to "moral"
means "what I think that you should do".
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification, not work permit or citizenship.
Support H.R. 1940: Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007 |
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| Back to top |
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