| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
1X2Willows
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:08 am Post subject: Archaeological sensation in progress |
 |
|
Ancient Celtic metropolitan area nestled in the Alps.
~300 BCE, ~40ha (100 acres?), ~7'000 sqft sanctuary/nemeton
http://www.argis.at/argis_neu/sandberg.html
"Known for more than hundred years, Roseldorf/Sandberg, the
largest Celtic lowland settlement of Austria, with an own mint
and the richest Austrian Celtic coin assemblage, is located in
the north-western part of Lower Austria. The numismatic analysis
(more than eight hundred coins) of the surface finds were the only
scientific studies in Roseldorf until the Department of Prehistory
of the Natural History Museum in Vienna started the research-
project "Fürstensitz-Keltenstadt" Sandberg in 1995. After
geomagnetic prospections (1995 - 2000), the first archaeological
excavation was realized in summer 2001.
A real sensation was discovered in the following years with
the Celtic sanctuary having many parallels (depositions of
destroyed weapons and animal victims) to the Gallic ritual
sites in France."
[Gournay-sur-Aronde being the most important of those]
http://www.gournaysuraronde.com/histoire.html
"Le bosquet, courant dans les sanctuaires antiques, avait chez les
Gaulois la plus haute importance, c'est le "bois sacré ", traduction
du mot latin fucus, la personnification même de la divinité. Les Celtes,
en effet, avant l'époque romaine, ne représentaient pas leurs dieux
sous une forme humaine.
Ils n'avaient ni statue les représentants ni quelconque effigie. Le bois
sacré qui était à la fois la demeure provisoire des dieux et le lien entre
les mondes souterrain et céleste permettait aux fidèles de ressentir la
présence divine, d'avoir avec elle un contact plus physique."
Quote about Roseldorf/Sandberg from the Austrian "Kurier" - 22.07.2004:
"Seit vier Jahren wird am Sandberg gearbeitet. Heuer soll der Eingang
zum so genannten "Heiligtum" im Keltensitz frei gelegt werden. [....]
Die Grabungen laufen bis 6. August."
This is going to be an exciting research period because everybody's in
suspense about specific similarities - or not - especially between the
designated ritual spaces of Sandberg and Gournay. While Gournay has
been a "one of a kind" find for a long time, Sandberg now connects
way East to characteristics of architecture and layout which were
formerly deemed 'exclusive' to the modern French territory.
As we know from the research at the Gournay sanctuary, nothing at all
indicates that resident Celts worshipped 'deities' in the sense of 'gods'
[in modern language]; most certainly anything of anthropomorph analogy.
Although substantial amounts of objects have been found there --- objects
ranging anywhere from clothing accessories to food and their containers,
decorated architectural building units, folded weapons and other sacrifices
displaying customized inscriptions and iconography amongst many more
--- none of the objects whatsoever refer to "Celtic Gods" as in a classic
polytheist pantheon either by shape, symbolism or inscription.
From a scientific point of view, one find, one reference point, one example
certainly won't ever be enough to indicate a pattern or 'regularity'. This
is also the reason why Gournay has - for the past few decades of research in
Keltology - stood in contrast with antecultural commentators such as
Julius Caesar who claimed that "amongst all gods, the Celts worship
Mercury the most." The reason why he said that is probably worth a
whole other discussion; "Interpretatio Romana" being the key word.
Well, this is about to change.
Sandberg could prove the exception to be the norm and
we're all looking forward to it.
Dan |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
Dafydd Monks
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Archaeological sensation in progress |
|
|
Cool stuf.
I'm thankful I can speak German so I can understand all the bits 'n bobs on
that site - being half german has advantages.
Hwyl,
TD/D
"1X2Willows" <spambucket@euro-celts.dot.com> wrote in message
news:4pRPc.7820$9Y6.2702@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Ancient Celtic metropolitan area nestled in the Alps.
~300 BCE, ~40ha (100 acres?), ~7'000 sqft sanctuary/nemeton
http://www.argis.at/argis_neu/sandberg.html
"Known for more than hundred years, Roseldorf/Sandberg, the
largest Celtic lowland settlement of Austria, with an own mint
and the richest Austrian Celtic coin assemblage, is located in
the north-western part of Lower Austria. The numismatic analysis
(more than eight hundred coins) of the surface finds were the only
scientific studies in Roseldorf until the Department of Prehistory
of the Natural History Museum in Vienna started the research-
project "Fürstensitz-Keltenstadt" Sandberg in 1995. After
geomagnetic prospections (1995 - 2000), the first archaeological
excavation was realized in summer 2001.
A real sensation was discovered in the following years with
the Celtic sanctuary having many parallels (depositions of
destroyed weapons and animal victims) to the Gallic ritual
sites in France."
[Gournay-sur-Aronde being the most important of those]
http://www.gournaysuraronde.com/histoire.html
"Le bosquet, courant dans les sanctuaires antiques, avait chez les
Gaulois la plus haute importance, c'est le "bois sacré ", traduction
du mot latin fucus, la personnification même de la divinité. Les Celtes,
en effet, avant l'époque romaine, ne représentaient pas leurs dieux
sous une forme humaine.
Ils n'avaient ni statue les représentants ni quelconque effigie. Le bois
sacré qui était à la fois la demeure provisoire des dieux et le lien entre
les mondes souterrain et céleste permettait aux fidèles de ressentir la
présence divine, d'avoir avec elle un contact plus physique."
Quote about Roseldorf/Sandberg from the Austrian "Kurier" - 22.07.2004:
"Seit vier Jahren wird am Sandberg gearbeitet. Heuer soll der Eingang
zum so genannten "Heiligtum" im Keltensitz frei gelegt werden. [....]
Die Grabungen laufen bis 6. August."
This is going to be an exciting research period because everybody's in
suspense about specific similarities - or not - especially between the
designated ritual spaces of Sandberg and Gournay. While Gournay has
been a "one of a kind" find for a long time, Sandberg now connects
way East to characteristics of architecture and layout which were
formerly deemed 'exclusive' to the modern French territory.
As we know from the research at the Gournay sanctuary, nothing at all
indicates that resident Celts worshipped 'deities' in the sense of 'gods'
[in modern language]; most certainly anything of anthropomorph analogy.
Although substantial amounts of objects have been found there --- objects
ranging anywhere from clothing accessories to food and their containers,
decorated architectural building units, folded weapons and other
sacrifices
displaying customized inscriptions and iconography amongst many more
--- none of the objects whatsoever refer to "Celtic Gods" as in a classic
polytheist pantheon either by shape, symbolism or inscription.
From a scientific point of view, one find, one reference point, one
example
certainly won't ever be enough to indicate a pattern or 'regularity'. This
is also the reason why Gournay has - for the past few decades of research
in
Keltology - stood in contrast with antecultural commentators such as
Julius Caesar who claimed that "amongst all gods, the Celts worship
Mercury the most." The reason why he said that is probably worth a
whole other discussion; "Interpretatio Romana" being the key word.
Well, this is about to change.
Sandberg could prove the exception to be the norm and
we're all looking forward to it.
Dan
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Searles O'Dubhain
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Archaeological sensation in progress |
|
|
"Dafydd Monks" <dafydd.monks@dragondesigns.org.uk> wrote in message
news:cepcfq$h6a$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
| Quote: | Cool stuf.
I'm thankful I can speak German so I can understand all the bits 'n
bobs on
that site - being half german has advantages.
Hwyl,
TD/D
|
As best I can make out from the German of the page URL provided, this
settlement has produced coins that can be dated archaeologically,
sacrificial offerings of swords and scabbards (and similar items), and
amulets. The thing I find most interesting is that the sanctuary
uncovered appears oriented on the cardinal directions with an opening to
the east (like gornay-sur-arond). It also seems that it has sacrificial
pits of a similar type. There were animal bones found but I'm not sure
if it said there were any human bones found among the offerings. There
were many house sites and several larger structures which were said to
be 20 meters on a side.. Hopefully, more can be uncovered as the dig
progresses and is analyzed.
The orientation of the opening toward the rising Sun is suitably Celtic
and is a characteristic that was found in Gaul, Britain and Ireland as
well. I'm wondering if there was a central pit to the north and smaller
pits enclosing it from the east through the south and west?
Searles |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
1X2Willows
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Archaeological sensation in progress |
|
|
"Dafydd Monks" wrote
| Quote: | Cool stuf.
I'm thankful I can speak German so I can understand
all the bits 'n bobs on that site - being half german
has advantages.
|
Yupp. Languages are a wonderful thing. 
The French description was also very enlightening.
Dan |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
1X2Willows
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Archaeological sensation in progress |
|
|
"Searles O'Dubhain" <odubhain@comcast.net> wrote
| Quote: |
[....] There were animal bones found but I'm not sure if it said
there were any human bones found among the offerings. [....]
|
That would be this one:
"Am Sandberg zählen die nicht mehr im Verband befindlichen und
einzeln im Umfassungsgraben gelagerten menschlichen Skelettreste
(Abb. 15) eher zu den seltenen Funden. Ihre Bedeutung ist jedoch
sehr groß, da sie die Sitte der menschlichen Opferungen beweisen."
Quickie translation:
"Several human skeleton remnants (not in assembly with the whole
skeleton anymore and deposited alone in the surrounding ditch)
account for rather seldom (unique) finds. Their significance is very
large, however, since they prove the custom of human sacrifice."
Give or take accurate interpretation as always, of course.
I find it possible that single limbs ended up in that ditch,
which - say - were removed for medical reasons or
lopped off in battle.
Dan |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Dafydd Monks
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Archaeological sensation in progress |
|
|
Sure is:-).
"1X2Willows" <spambucket@euro-celts.dot.com> wrote in message
news:Bn8Qc.8990$9Y6.850@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | "Dafydd Monks" wrote
Cool stuf.
I'm thankful I can speak German so I can understand
all the bits 'n bobs on that site - being half german
has advantages.
Yupp. Languages are a wonderful thing.
The French description was also very enlightening.
Dan
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
