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Romauld
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Recently, a script from Dirk Bruere at Neopax arrived, in which they said:
: Maybe the fact that one in three British men has a criminal record also has
: something to do with it.
Does that figures include traffic offenses such as speeding?
~R
--
Romauld - romauld at necrotheque dot dcu
All Pagans who think of themselves as Elders should read this:
http://www.partiallyclips.com/pages/archive.php?id=1021&b=1 |
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
| Quote: | Maybe the fact that one in three British men has a criminal record also has
something to do with it.
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I didn't know that. I do know, my job aside, that social surveillance
is commonplace. Is there a sense that the State has its hands well on
one there?
I've not been in the UK since 1990, nor in London since the late-70s,
but I recall a low police presence compared to the US norm.
This was particularly true in France. A Breton friend, asked what he
didn't like about the US, said that there are always police everywhere,
watching. In Brittany it was a bit of a rarity to see the police,
certainly compared to here, where on a single drive I often see many.
I sometimes wonder about the chicken-egg question. Is it because there
are so many police that there is so little social responsibility here,
with kids growing up thinking that not seeing a cop means one should
get away with whatever one can while one can? I often knew young men
like that in my Navy days. Away from Mommy and Daddy for the first
time, and without self-control, they thought there were no restrictions
on their behavior. The police presence, I sometimes think, prevents
many from growing up and being responsible, always just a bit of the
toddler about them.
Eric |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Romauld wrote:
| Quote: | Recently, a script from Dirk Bruere at Neopax arrived, in which they said:
: Maybe the fact that one in three British men has a criminal record also has
: something to do with it.
Does that figures include traffic offenses such as speeding?
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No.
That's a civil offence.
FFF
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org |
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Ed Clowes
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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In article <1118428145.316438.151090@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
liberalbear@lycos.com says...
| Quote: | Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
Good point. We've definitely been placed in a weak position should
anyone seek to demonize the whole religion by highlighting those
connections, and I think you're spot-on that the prisons are a key.
That may be true in the US but is far less so here.
But then, more than 1 of every 140 Americans is in prison. The US
prison population would easily constitute the second largest city in
Great Britain, with more than double Birmingham's population. British
politicians aren't as adept as their American counterparts in
exploiting fear for power and control, nor thankfully, do the British
people seem as susceptible or malleable.
Eric
1 in 140 Americans in prison is an effect of American politicians |
exploiting fear for power and control?
Curious.
Ed
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Scott Lowther
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Ed Clowes wrote:
| Quote: | 1 in 140 Americans in prison is an effect of American politicians
exploiting fear for power and control?
Curious.
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1 in 140 Americans in prison is an effect of the so-called "War on Drugs." A combination of a means of obtianing and retaining power for Da Gubmint, and of many people stupid enough to fall for it. Legalizing drugs woudl be the best thing; it would not only free up resources, it would suck a lot of power from the government. The stupid people would remain stupid, however. But one issue at a time... |
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Romauld
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Recently, a script from Scott Lowther arrived, in which they said:
: 1 in 140 Americans in prison is an effect of the so-called "War on Drugs." A combination of a means of obtianing and retaining power for Da Gubmint, and of many people stupid enough to fall for it. Legalizing drugs woudl be the best thing; it would not only free up resources, it would suck a lot of power from the government. The stupid people would remain stupid, however. But one issue at a time...
:
I quote Robert Anton Wilson, speaking through the character of Hagbard
Celine:
"All any government has to do, to put me out of busines
within its borders, is to legalise drug use."
Tax it, regulate it, brand it, make happy, hungry people. Works for
alcohol and cigarettes: why not gange and X?
~R
--
Romauld - romauld at necrotheque dot dcu
All Pagans who think of themselves as Elders should read this:
http://www.partiallyclips.com/pages/archive.php?id=1021&b=1 |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Romauld wrote:
| Quote: | Recently, a script from Scott Lowther arrived, in which they said:
: 1 in 140 Americans in prison is an effect of the so-called "War on Drugs." A combination of a means of obtianing and retaining power for Da Gubmint, and of many people stupid enough to fall for it. Legalizing drugs woudl be the best thing; it would not only free up resources, it would suck a lot of power from the government. The stupid people would remain stupid, however. But one issue at a time...
:
I quote Robert Anton Wilson, speaking through the character of Hagbard
Celine:
"All any government has to do, to put me out of busines
within its borders, is to legalise drug use."
Tax it, regulate it, brand it, make happy, hungry people. Works for
alcohol and cigarettes: why not gange and X?
|
And the added benefit of wiping out the really undesirable people who cannot or
will not control their habit. Consider it an updated eugenics program...
FFF
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org |
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Scott Lowther
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Romauld wrote:
| Quote: | Tax it, regulate it, brand it, make happy, hungry people. Works for
alcohol and cigarettes: why not gange and X?
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Because to do so would be to give up power. Republican or Democrat, few
politicians, sadly, really want to make the government any smaller. |
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Scott Lowther
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
| Quote: | And the added benefit of wiping out the really undesirable people who
cannot or will not control their habit. Consider it an updated
eugenics program...
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I don;t know whether you're serious there, but even the merest *hint* of
such a notion would doom a drug legalization movement. |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: | Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
And the added benefit of wiping out the really undesirable people who
cannot or will not control their habit. Consider it an updated
eugenics program...
I don;t know whether you're serious there, but even the merest *hint* of
such a notion would doom a drug legalization movement.
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Well, tobacco and alcohol are doing a reasonable job, but they are just not
quick enough. Crack cocaine, OTOH, is a pretty rapid way of killing yourself if
taken often enough to maintain the high for weeks or months. Heroin you can take
forever with no ill effects.
FFF
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org |
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Scott Lowther
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
| Quote: | Scott Lowther wrote:
Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
And the added benefit of wiping out the really undesirable people
who cannot or will not control their habit. Consider it an updated
eugenics program...
I don;t know whether you're serious there, but even the merest *hint*
of such a notion would doom a drug legalization movement.
Well, tobacco and alcohol are doing a reasonable job, but they are
just not quick enough.
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Actually, tobacco is sort of the perfect drug, economically. It kills
you at jsut about the time of retirement; this means you work and pay
taxes for more or less the proper amount, but then die pretty rapidly
and don;t sponge off the retirement/social security systems for decades.
I can recall at least one governmental (Poland? Czech republic?) study
that came to this conclusion, and caused a firestorm. |
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Doug Freyburger
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:
| Quote: | Romauld wrote:
Tax it, regulate it, brand it, make happy, hungry people. Works for
alcohol and cigarettes: why not gange and X?
And the added benefit of wiping out the really undesirable people who cannot or
will not control their habit. Consider it an updated eugenics program...
|
The US tried prohibiting alcohol several decades ago.
The result was pouring vast amount of cash into the hands
of criminals, and alcohol consumption went underground.
Additional results were stuff like whiskey and other
distilled drinks getting far more popular than beer and
wine, and alcoholics no longer seeking help.
The cry of the folks who wanted to keep Prohibition was
that there would be drunks in the street if it was
legalized. It was legallized and the actual result was
fewer drunks in the street, and more of the remaining
drunks seeking help. Alcoholics Anonymous was founded
as soon as Prohibition ended to help those who had fallen
into the trap of illegal addiction to climb up out of the
trap of legal addiction.
My conclusion - Legalizing drugs won't work as an
updated eugenics program. It'll just reduce the total
useage of the harder ones that lead to deaths without
much effecting the use of the milder one that still
gets used on cancer patients. |
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Scott Lowther
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Doug Freyburger wrote:
| Quote: |
Alcoholics Anonymous was founded
as soon as Prohibition ended to help those who had fallen
into the trap of illegal addiction to climb up out of the
trap of legal addiction.
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OT: Catch, if you can, the "Self Helpless" episode of Penn & Teller's
"Bullshit!" It pretty effectively bombards AA as beign the crackpot
Christian nuttery that it is. |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: | Doug Freyburger wrote:
Alcoholics Anonymous was founded
as soon as Prohibition ended to help those who had fallen
into the trap of illegal addiction to climb up out of the
trap of legal addiction.
OT: Catch, if you can, the "Self Helpless" episode of Penn & Teller's
"Bullshit!" It pretty effectively bombards AA as beign the crackpot
Christian nuttery that it is.
|
The bottom line is the only one that matters.
Does it work, and does anyone do better?
FFF
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Asatru_Crafts_For-Kids |
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That's it. As are mandatory jail sentences that bypass any reasonable
considerations. While acknowledging that to some extent these arose as
a reaction to a failure of reason in the opposite direction- releasing
truly dangerous people- mostly it has been a combination of politics
and media that make people think violent crime is more a threat than it
is and politicians taking the popular and non-controversial position of
being "tough on crime". It's a solid demogogue plus- where the opposing
viewpoint is easily characterized as "weak on crime". The result in
popular politics is a race to lock up the most for the longest.
Eric
Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: | Ed Clowes wrote:
1 in 140 Americans in prison is an effect of American politicians
exploiting fear for power and control?
Curious.
1 in 140 Americans in prison is an effect of the so-called "War on Drugs." A combination of a means of obtianing and retaining power for Da Gubmint, and of many people stupid enough to fall for it. Legalizing drugs woudl be the best thing; it would not only free up resources, it would suck a lot of power from the government. The stupid people would remain stupid, however. But one issue at a time... |
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