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 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,
vernono <vernono@there.com> typed:
| Quote: | And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go
get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle
finger salute (shake your sandal).
Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,
The Christ, said to do after He left.
|
You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant the
real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is about
Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is about TRUTH in
the first instance.
To say it with Jesus...
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to
observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with
you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
To say it with Paul...
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who
shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,
exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when
they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall
they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall
turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an
evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the
wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to
withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand
therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the
breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of
the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye
shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the
helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of
God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and
watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all
saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open
my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am
an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to
speak. (Ephesians 6:11-20 KJV)
In addition, I cannot see how your words might fit to Chuck's post...
and whom you migth see getting a real sword...
But our sword is God's Word...
Amen?
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp ::::::: |
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DOC
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: Re: Beautiful! |
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 02:55:37 -0700, john w <j<no>@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | (I lie, I stretch, I IMAGINE, I DELUDE) and haven't been where I've
been or seen what I've seen. But I'll pontificate and
reduce myself to a puddle of protoplasm.
I'm not secure enough in myself. What I DO manage to do is get myself
shaking my head that I can be as low-down ornery and dirty as I
get.
And then I call myself "educated and civilized."
And it isn't pretty.
I come in here, LOOKING for people to poke my finger at and
chuckle. I get a lot out of it.
Those who know me (those who
actually know me in the flesh) will tell you I'm about the most dishonest
person they know.
I exaggerate, I distort , and I lie , and I mark myself a joke.
You have abused me beyond my ability to measure with your
fabrications about me lying, exaggerating, seeing things that aren't
there, embellishing...
Call me a pathological liar, a psycho.
I have ZERO respect.
And I'm not at all a happy camper
I am petty, childish, destructive.
I consider myself neither adult or rational.
'
What I AM is a pathetic, attention-starved, lying gossip.
|
Truer words were never spoken, short bus johnnie. |
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vernono
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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" ::: good news runner :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6guhdpFhonpiU1@mid.individual.net...
| Quote: | In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,
vernono <vernono@there.com> typed:
And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go
get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle
finger salute (shake your sandal).
Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,
The Christ, said to do after He left.
You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant the
real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is about
Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is about TRUTH in
the first instance.
|
No, I am talking about real swords and a pouch of money.
Of course that doesn't chang live by the sword and die by the sword.
And Jesus had compassion on several centurians. These had probably killed
tens or hundreds of people.
| Quote: |
To say it with Jesus...
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe
all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
To say it with Paul...
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall
judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the
word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with
all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not
endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their
ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in
all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full
proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the
wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness
of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take
unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the
evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your
loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of
righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of
peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able
to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of
salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying
always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching
thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for
me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly,
to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an ambassador in
bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. (Ephesians
6:11-20 KJV)
In addition, I cannot see how your words might fit to Chuck's post... and
whom you migth see getting a real sword...
But our sword is God's Word...
Amen?
--
|
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words. |
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Chuck Stamford
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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"James R" <barefieldm@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4315555f-982b-44fd-84e2-04d31bef8f38@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 18, 1:16 pm, "Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamf...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "James R" <barefie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c33a1009-49c2-4371-badb-1491caebee5e@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
snip
This reader has cut off the long post in the wrong place and I cannot
seem to find a way to stop it from doing so. I just the post has just
gotten too long for it.
Chuck:
James, if that's the case, you can always edit the length down as I just
did
above, to allow room to focus in on a point of interest for you. The only
time someone snipping tends to get to me is when they snip what I have
said,
only to then characterize it in an inaccurate way in their response, and
then proceed to argue against THEIR characterization of what I actually
said. That, to me, is intellectually dishonest. That is tilting at
windmills; erecting strawman arguments, whatever one cares to call it, and
it is a waste of everyone's time.
As long as you dont' do that, feel free to snip whatever you want with my
blessings!
|
James:
I don't think that is ethical and that is why I was pointing out my
issue. It has been a while since I posted and I am using Google now,
not an offline reader. Limitations or expertise, not sure which,
anyway....
Chuck:
It can't be unethical if I tell you it's okay.
| Quote: |
James:
At any rate, I have enjoyed the discussion and I think we are mostly
in agreement on this, the disagreement , if any seems to be in our use
of terms.
Chuck:
I have also enjoyed our discussion to this point, and feel the same way:
that we are largely expressing the same truths using different
approaches...with the one caveat I mentioned last time, that your approach
gives us no way to justify God allowing so much evil to occur for so long,
without calling His omnipotence and omniscience into question. For if God
knows how to stop evil, and is powerful enough to do anything possible
(and
it certainly seems that acting to preclude any evil is logically possible
to
do for an omniscient Being!), then we have to have a way to justify God
NOT
stopping evil, and I don't think your analysis, as far as I understand it
anyway, gives us a way to do that.
The Free Will Defence, once understood, gives us that way.
|
James:
Maybe, but I suspect it is just us using different terms. I don't not
see God limited in power. I see Him choosing to limit Himself to
commitments He has made, if that makes sense.
Chuck:
Not much, unless you can show me what these commitments are.
James:
In other words, as you
noted below in our discussion, God could have chosen to wipe out the
whole thing when Satan took control of the world, but He choose to
save the world instead. Being ethical, a lack of a better choice of
words, God did not just take over the world be force from Satan, but
He honored His commitment to man. That is to say, He gave the world
to man and man gave it to Satan, so God honor man's choice as it were
and went about to save the world.
Chuck:
I think you're confusing "commitment" with God giving something and not
taking it back. For God, who knows the future as He knows the past and
present, to give something away, and then take it back by sheer force and
against the will of the one He gave it to, would be to contradict at least
one of His prefections, and that's impossible.
James:
The fact that Jesus died from the
foundation of the world according to the Bible shows both God's fore
knowledge and our free will, from my perspective.
Chuck:
Then let me share what it shows me. As I just said above, God, having given
dominion of creation to man, cannot then, by sheer force of power, take it
back from man, who by his sin lends that dominion to Satan so long as man
continues to be a sinner against God.
So how does God go about taking back that dominion without contradicting His
own nature? This is the amazing thing that so few seem to see: God BECOMES
a sinless man, and thus EARNS BACK that dominion from sinful man, and Satan,
who has used man as his way to wrest creation from God. Herein we see why
Jesus MUST be God manifest in the flesh to do what God sent His Son to do.
| Quote: |
James:
I would simply make one more point.
When Jesus came, and was tempted by Satan, He was offered the worlds
by Satan for bowing down and worshiping Satan. Jesus never challenged
Satan's claim to ownership of this world. That is a fact that has not
come up in our discussion.
Chuck:
Well, actually it has been at least implied when you talked about God
giving
man dominion over all the earth and I agreed with you on that point. That
dominion transferred to Satan in the Garden at the Fall, did it not? Isn't
that what Jesus is acknowledging by not disputing Satan's claim here?
|
James:
Yes. And we have been implying that without using the exact words
until now.
| Quote: |
James:
To be complete, I think this fact must be
part of it. If Satan is the god of this world, then this also
explains much of the evil in this world and also the facts regarding
God's "holding" back on intervention or methods of intervention.
Chuck:
While I agree with your conclusion, I'd like to see how you get there.
James:
If Satan owns the world, what is God's ability to intervene? I think
He did what was "legal" by sending prophets and used those that
believed to intervene, including Jesus of course who paid the price
for freedom for those who believe. That freedom to not be under
Satan's rule and authority to resist Satan and as Acts 10:38 says to
destroy his works. As Christians we are different from the rest of
humans in this way. Satan's ability to rule over us is broken and we
have authority in Christ over him. In this we see acts of authority
like casting out devils, healings, etc. The authority of the believer
is also an interesting discussion.
Chuck:
Yes, it most certainly is, but I would suggest we get there by some other
route than by questioning God having any number of ways open to Him to
intervene and eradicate the evil in the world. True, the world is under
Satan's dominion, because God gave dominion to man, and man transferred
that
dominion to Satan when man put Satan in the position of "controller of my
life" (i.e., Adam made Satan his "God") by man's sin.
|
James:
We agree.
Chuck:
We do I "think". I'm starting to think perhaps you see Satan's "dominion"
over creation as something man had, but has no longer, having given it away
to Satan, and that's not my view of how Satan acheives "dominion" over
creation. I think you can see from my above that I see this "dominion" that
man was given by God as something that man still has, but that man, because
of his fallen nature, shares with Satan so long as man remains a fallen
nature. What was required for God to gain back the dominion over the
creation was that a sinless man give it to him willingly, as a sinless man
once gave it to Satan willingly.
Trouble is, all men who are creatures of God are born sinners.
"...who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal
with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a
bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in
appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of
death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted
Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of
Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and
of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus
Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2:6-11
| Quote: |
But does it follow that God must save man? Or that God couldn't just cease
to sustain Satan in being and everything that now belongs to Satan as
well?
It would be perfectly just of God to simply eradicate all of creation; the
world, mankind, the universe, the angels, and start over...or not do
anything else except to be the eternal God God always was before He
created
anything. We need to see that God was under no obligation to create, and
is
under no obligation to sustain creation in being regardless of the moral
state of that creation. Creation can therefore never become "good" enough
to "oblige" God to sustain it in being, nor "evil" enough to "oblige" God
to
cease sustaining it in being. Creation exists for one, and only one
reason:
the good pleasure of selfless Love.
|
James:
Agreed.
Chuck:
| Quote: |
So we can't question God's ability to intervene in His creation simply on
the basis of Satan's present dominion over it. We can't conceptually limit
God's avenue of intervention to what God has done through His Son, Jesus
Christ, or the pouring out of His Holy Spirit into the hearts of
believers,
for if we believe Revelation (not to mention Exodus!), there will come a
time when God intervenes in the world in a very different fashion, and
even
here we cannot say that because this is what God does this is all God can
do, or the softer version of it, this is what God is "obliged" to do. We
want to be very, VERY careful in our thinking that we don't accidently
begin
to use lines of thought that either directly or indirectly limit the
actions
of an Absolute Being.
|
James:
I agree that God could be just in the two alternatives you presented -
wipe everything out or send a Savior. i am so thankful He sent
Jesus. I cannot fully put it into words - I just praise Him for His
love.
Chuck:
Amen.
| Quote: |
Anyway, it's fairly clear to me you're on the right track and we have no
serious differences in this area.
|
James:
Enjoyed the discussion so far. Maybe we can discuss the other item at
some point.
The authority of the believer, would be interesting.
Chuck:
Depends, I think, on how far you want to delve into it. On a very
simplistic level, as long as the believer abides within the perfect will of
God for her/him, her/his authority is complete and unrestricted. |
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Chuck Stamford
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:uzqqk.2995$xv4.2571@fe111.usenetserver.com...
| Quote: |
" ::: good news runner :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6guhdpFhonpiU1@mid.individual.net...
In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,
vernono <vernono@there.com> typed:
And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go
get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle
finger salute (shake your sandal).
Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,
The Christ, said to do after He left.
You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant the
real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is about
Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is about TRUTH in
the first instance.
No, I am talking about real swords and a pouch of money.
Of course that doesn't chang live by the sword and die by the sword.
And Jesus had compassion on several centurians. These had probably killed
tens or hundreds of people.
To say it with Jesus...
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the
Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe
all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
To say it with Paul...
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall
judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the
word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with
all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not
endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their
ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in
all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full
proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the
wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to
withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand
therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the
breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of
the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye
shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the
helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of
God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and
watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth
boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an
ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to
speak. (Ephesians 6:11-20 KJV)
In addition, I cannot see how your words might fit to Chuck's post... and
whom you migth see getting a real sword...
|
He said for his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy real swords, and you
are right that He was talking about real swords. However, it is easily
misunderstood when it is taken out of context. Jesus is there contrasting
the protection He provided for them while with them on earth, with the fact
that after His death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven, they would
not continue to enjoy that same level of preservation.
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to
You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that
they may be one as We are. 12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept
them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is
lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13
"But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may
have My joy fulfilled in themselves. John 17:11-13
Compare with:
Then Jesus said to them, "All of you will be made to stumble because of Me
this night, for it is written: 'I will strike the Shepherd, And the sheep of
the flock will be scattered.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go
before you to Galilee." 33 Peter answered and said to Him, "Even if all are
made to stumble because of You, I will never be made to stumble." 34 Jesus
said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you that this night, before the rooster
crows, you will deny Me three times." 35 Peter said to Him, "Even if I have
to die with You, I will not deny You!" And so said all the disciples. Matt
26:31-35
So the moneybag He told them to take this time is real, as is the sword, but
the TEACHING is concerning the change in the protection level Jesus'
disciples are about to experience that makes moneybags and swords part of
living out their lives as disciples of His.
I believe Jesus is teaching that the Christian cannot be completely
oblivious to money or to occasionally being called upon to defend what God
has entrusted into his charge, but that this is not to be over done or used
as an excuse for not trusting in God. Just because it is true the watchman
watches in vain if the Lord is not in it, so to it is true that the Lord
being in it doesn't allow the watchman to go home and climb into bed. He
must still "watch", for that is what the Lord has called him to do.
| Quote: |
But our sword is God's Word...
Amen?
--
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
|
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Chuck Stamford
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Beautiful!.. |
|
|
"Matt ." <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > wrote in message
news:0joja49kvjh8s6hbm47micbkobvac5f7cr@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:16:09 +0200, " ::: good news runner :::"
veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:5qgja4pg3s85nkllbanu74sbch6gsb1kvi@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:07:00 +0200, " ::: good news runner :::"
veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't
brag about them.
Wrong.
OK Vera's: View Bow before Vera, agree to everything Vera Says (in
my opinion)
OK Matts View.: Have Faith in Christ our Lord, Have a commitment to
God and Gods word, and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not
believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on
him" (Jn.3:36).
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
"Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to
come into the world" (Jn. 11:27).
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God;
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
God Bless
Matt
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
My point has been made Vera
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Only if you part your hair just right. |
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psalmsmith
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Beautiful!.. |
|
|
In article <jwtqk.31644$1N1.4944@newsfe07.iad>,
"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "Matt ." <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > wrote in message
news:0joja49kvjh8s6hbm47micbkobvac5f7cr@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:16:09 +0200, " ::: good news runner :::"
veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:5qgja4pg3s85nkllbanu74sbch6gsb1kvi@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:07:00 +0200, " ::: good news runner :::"
veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't
brag about them.
Wrong.
OK Vera's: View Bow before Vera, agree to everything Vera Says (in
my opinion)
OK Matts View.: Have Faith in Christ our Lord, Have a commitment to
God and Gods word, and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not
believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on
him" (Jn.3:36).
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
"Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to
come into the world" (Jn. 11:27).
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God;
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
God Bless
Matt
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
My point has been made Vera
Only if you part your hair just right.
|
Is dissembling somehow related to dissolution? |
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| Back to top |
1st Century Apostolic Tra
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
Chuck stated
| Quote: | Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
|
Exactly! He sure didn't mince his words, not like you love doing do,
Chuck.....
"52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for ALL
THEY that take the sword shall PERISH with the sword." Matt 26:52 (KJV)
But Chuck says, no they won't.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do NOT KILL."
Mark 10:19 (KJV)
But Chuck says, you can kill if you must.
"11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do NOT KILL. Now if
thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a TRANSGRESSOR of
the law." James 2:11 (KJV)
Everyone but Chuck.
"But I say Love your enemies"
But Chuck says, not if they attack me or threaten my family....they can then
be killed.
Jeff... |
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| Back to top |
Mike Painter
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
| Quote: | Chuck stated
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
Exactly! He sure didn't mince his words, not like you love doing do,
Chuck.....
"52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:
for ALL THEY that take the sword shall PERISH with the sword." Matt
26:52 (KJV) But Chuck says, no they won't.
|
And how exactly do you know that this is a "real" sword in this context.
If selling clothes to buy a sword does not mena a real sword, then dyng by
the sword could mean what ever you want it to also.
| Quote: |
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do NOT
KILL." Mark 10:19 (KJV)
But Chuck says, you can kill if you must.
"11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do NOT KILL.
Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a
TRANSGRESSOR of the law." James 2:11 (KJV)
Everyone but Chuck.
|
Everyone but chuck and about 99.9% percent of all religious people since
then.
The OT law had hundreds of punishments where death was mandated.
Christ said that law woluld never pass and nowhre did he specifically
mwention th ones you could ignore when it became inconvenient.
| Quote: |
"But I say Love your enemies"
But Chuck says, not if they attack me or threaten my family....they
can then be killed.
Jeff... |
|
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| Back to top |
Matt .
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Beautiful!.. |
|
|
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:13:33 -0700, "Chuck Stamford"
<shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Matt ." <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > wrote in message
news:0joja49kvjh8s6hbm47micbkobvac5f7cr@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:16:09 +0200, " ::: good news runner :::"
veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:5qgja4pg3s85nkllbanu74sbch6gsb1kvi@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:07:00 +0200, " ::: good news runner :::"
veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't
brag about them.
Wrong.
OK Vera's: View Bow before Vera, agree to everything Vera Says (in
my opinion)
OK Matts View.: Have Faith in Christ our Lord, Have a commitment to
God and Gods word, and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not
believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on
him" (Jn.3:36).
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
"Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to
come into the world" (Jn. 11:27).
In news:ofbja4t85v2o33dj3q9j34huvvqkc9cckf@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Insane one Vera,
Get help Vera
Matt
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God;
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
In news:srdja4tq23ti6ugm2vnvr2e3s607qcj881@4ax.com,
Matt . <trdell1234@nospamgmail.com > typed:
Vera there are no ""Christians by birth and good works""
It takes Faith, Commitment and good works don't hurt, just don't brag
about them.
God Bless
Matt
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
My point has been made Vera
Only if you part your hair just right.
|
Is that the best you can do?
Vera say jump Chucky Jump. |
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| Back to top |
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jbtqk.37289$QX3.22081@newsfe02.iad...
| Quote: |
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:uzqqk.2995$xv4.2571@fe111.usenetserver.com...
" ::: good news runner :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6guhdpFhonpiU1@mid.individual.net...
In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,
vernono <vernono@there.com> typed:
And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go
get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle
finger salute (shake your sandal).
Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,
The Christ, said to do after He left.
You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant the
real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is about
Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is about TRUTH in
the first instance.
No, I am talking about real swords and a pouch of money.
Of course that doesn't chang live by the sword and die by the sword.
And Jesus had compassion on several centurians. These had probably
killed tens or hundreds of people.
To say it with Jesus...
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to
observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with
you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
To say it with Paul...
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who
shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,
exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when
they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall
they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall
turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an
evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the
wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to
withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand
therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the
breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of
the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye
shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the
helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of
God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and
watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all
saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open
my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am
an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to
speak. (Ephesians 6:11-20 KJV)
In addition, I cannot see how your words might fit to Chuck's post...
and whom you migth see getting a real sword...
He said for his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy real swords, and
you are right that He was talking about real swords. However, it is
easily misunderstood when it is taken out of context. Jesus is there
contrasting the protection He provided for them while with them on earth,
with the fact that after His death, resurrection, and ascension into
heaven, they would not continue to enjoy that same level of preservation.
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to
You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,
that they may be one as We are. 12 "While I was with them in the world, I
kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of
them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be
fulfilled. 13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the
world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. John 17:11-13
Compare with:
Then Jesus said to them, "All of you will be made to stumble because of Me
this night, for it is written: 'I will strike the Shepherd, And the sheep
of the flock will be scattered.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will
go before you to Galilee." 33 Peter answered and said to Him, "Even if all
are made to stumble because of You, I will never be made to stumble." 34
Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you that this night, before the
rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." 35 Peter said to Him, "Even
if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!" And so said all the
disciples. Matt 26:31-35
So the moneybag He told them to take this time is real, as is the sword,
but the TEACHING is concerning the change in the protection level Jesus'
disciples are about to experience that makes moneybags and swords part of
living out their lives as disciples of His.
I believe Jesus is teaching that the Christian cannot be completely
oblivious to money or to occasionally being called upon to defend what God
has entrusted into his charge, but that this is not to be over done or
used as an excuse for not trusting in God. Just because it is true the
watchman watches in vain if the Lord is not in it, so to it is true that
the Lord being in it doesn't allow the watchman to go home and climb into
bed. He must still "watch", for that is what the Lord has called him to
do.
But our sword is God's Word...
Amen?
--
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
|
I agree with you 100%. I have seen too many ignore His teaching about
defense and scoff at those who protect us with their lives. |
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vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<1stCenturyApostolic@Traditionalist.com> wrote in message
news:85zqk.62383$8y1.26103@newsfe18.ams2...
| Quote: | Chuck stated
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
Exactly! He sure didn't mince his words, not like you love doing do,
Chuck.....
"52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for
ALL THEY that take the sword shall PERISH with the sword." Matt 26:52
(KJV)
But Chuck says, no they won't.
|
You lie
| Quote: |
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do NOT KILL."
Mark 10:19 (KJV)
|
The term is "murder"
Jesus helped Centurians.
| Quote: | But Chuck says, you can kill if you must.
"11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do NOT KILL. Now
if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a
TRANSGRESSOR of the law." James 2:11 (KJV)
Everyone but Chuck.
|
The termis Murder, not kill. "Kill" would include chickens and cows.
DUHHHH
| Quote: |
"But I say Love your enemies"
But Chuck says, not if they attack me or threaten my family....they can
then be killed.
|
"My" enemies and the Lord's enemies are not necesarily the same.
You really should try reading the bible.
|
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| Back to top |
::: good news runner :::
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
In news:uzqqk.2995$xv4.2571@fe111.usenetserver.com,
vernono <vernono@there.com> typed:
| Quote: | " ::: good news runner :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6guhdpFhonpiU1@mid.individual.net...
In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,
vernono <vernono@there.com> typed:
And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go
get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle
finger salute (shake your sandal).
Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,
The Christ, said to do after He left.
You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant
the real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is
about Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is
about TRUTH in the first instance.
No, I am talking about real swords and a pouch of money.
Of course that doesn't chang live by the sword and die by the sword.
And Jesus had compassion on several centurians. These had probably
killed tens or hundreds of people.
To say it with Jesus...
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them
to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am
with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew
28:19-20 KJV) To say it with Paul...
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who
shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove,
rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time
will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their
own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching
ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall
be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure
afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy
ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV) Put on the whole armour of God, that
ye may be able to stand against
the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of
the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high
places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may
be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having
on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the
preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of
faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of
the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the
Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and
supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all
perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that
utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to
make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an ambassador
in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
(Ephesians 6:11-20 KJV) In addition, I cannot see how your words
might fit to Chuck's
post... and whom you migth see getting a real sword...
But our sword is God's Word...
Amen?
--
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
|
No, He did not, so we agree. I thought you were talking of using a sword
in the newsgroups, which is not real but metaphorical. That was why I
asked how your post fit as a result to Chuck's post. Sorry, I
misunderstood. I do believe we can defend ourselves if we are attacked
physically. Many people in usenet confuse the Spiritual fighting with
the physical war or physical attacks. they even feel that posting
Scripture they do not like is an attack... |
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| Back to top |
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
"Mike Painter" <mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:jAAqk.10543$L_.10347@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
| Quote: | 1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
Chuck stated
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
Exactly! He sure didn't mince his words, not like you love doing do,
Chuck.....
"52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place:
for ALL THEY that take the sword shall PERISH with the sword." Matt
26:52 (KJV) But Chuck says, no they won't.
And how exactly do you know that this is a "real" sword in this context.
If selling clothes to buy a sword does not mena a real sword, then dyng
by the sword could mean what ever you want it to also.
|
"STILL" if you live by the sword, you most likely will die by the sword,
EVEN if you save many.
Jesus gave His life. Would you? Seemingly not.
| Quote: |
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do NOT
KILL." Mark 10:19 (KJV)
But Chuck says, you can kill if you must.
"11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do NOT KILL.
Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a
TRANSGRESSOR of the law." James 2:11 (KJV)
Everyone but Chuck.
Everyone but chuck and about 99.9% percent of all religious people since
then.
The OT law had hundreds of punishments where death was mandated.
Christ said that law woluld never pass and nowhre did he specifically
mwention th ones you could ignore when it became inconvenient.
"But I say Love your enemies"
But Chuck says, not if they attack me or threaten my family....they
can then be killed.
Jeff...
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Chuck Stamford
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
|
|
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:X8Gqk.3052$xv4.464@fe111.usenetserver.com...
| Quote: |
"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jbtqk.37289$QX3.22081@newsfe02.iad...
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:uzqqk.2995$xv4.2571@fe111.usenetserver.com...
" ::: good news runner :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6guhdpFhonpiU1@mid.individual.net...
In news:wsnqk.1235$Tb5.958@fe93.usenetserver.com,
vernono <vernono@there.com> typed:
And the last thing Jesus said to the apostles in concert was to go
get a sword, also if a group did not listen, give them the middle
finger salute (shake your sandal).
Too bad people can't read the entire bible and listen to what Jesus,
The Christ, said to do after He left.
You are talking about swords in a metaphorical way, but Jesus meant the
real swords that can hurt people's body. This here, however, is about
Spiritual things - opinions, thoughts, ideas... and it is about TRUTH
in the first instance.
No, I am talking about real swords and a pouch of money.
Of course that doesn't chang live by the sword and die by the sword.
And Jesus had compassion on several centurians. These had probably
killed tens or hundreds of people.
To say it with Jesus...
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to
observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with
you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
To say it with Paul...
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who
shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,
exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when
they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall
they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall
turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an
evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against
the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to
withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand
therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the
breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation
of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith,
wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is
the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the
Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication
for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I
may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For
which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as
I ought to speak. (Ephesians 6:11-20 KJV)
In addition, I cannot see how your words might fit to Chuck's post...
and whom you migth see getting a real sword...
He said for his disciples to sell their cloaks and buy real swords, and
you are right that He was talking about real swords. However, it is
easily misunderstood when it is taken out of context. Jesus is there
contrasting the protection He provided for them while with them on earth,
with the fact that after His death, resurrection, and ascension into
heaven, they would not continue to enjoy that same level of preservation.
Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come
to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me,
that they may be one as We are. 12 "While I was with them in the world, I
kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of
them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be
fulfilled. 13 "But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the
world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. John 17:11-13
Compare with:
Then Jesus said to them, "All of you will be made to stumble because of
Me this night, for it is written: 'I will strike the Shepherd, And the
sheep of the flock will be scattered.' 32 "But after I have been raised,
I will go before you to Galilee." 33 Peter answered and said to Him,
"Even if all are made to stumble because of You, I will never be made to
stumble." 34 Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you that this night,
before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." 35 Peter said to
Him, "Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!" And so said
all the disciples. Matt 26:31-35
So the moneybag He told them to take this time is real, as is the sword,
but the TEACHING is concerning the change in the protection level Jesus'
disciples are about to experience that makes moneybags and swords part of
living out their lives as disciples of His.
I believe Jesus is teaching that the Christian cannot be completely
oblivious to money or to occasionally being called upon to defend what
God has entrusted into his charge, but that this is not to be over done
or used as an excuse for not trusting in God. Just because it is true
the watchman watches in vain if the Lord is not in it, so to it is true
that the Lord being in it doesn't allow the watchman to go home and climb
into bed. He must still "watch", for that is what the Lord has called
him to do.
But our sword is God's Word...
Amen?
--
Yes, the word of God is a sword BUT Jesus talked of a real sword.
Jesus didn't mince words.
I agree with you 100%. I have seen too many ignore His teaching about
defense and scoff at those who protect us with their lives.
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What they don't realize is that they are scoffing at a very important aspect
of the ideal Jesus gave us of love. He may have had to lay down His life
for us before the Romans without a struggle, but in the garden the night
before, when He sweat blood, there was certainly a titanic spiritual battle
going on! And Jesus' victory IS the destruction of Satan's dominion, not
Rome's. It doesn't take much imagination to hear the howls of demonic pain
on that night and all the next day, and forever more!
That's all I'm saying, and I'm glad you agree. Love CAN'T sit by and watch
as the beloved is harmed. We can say it is up to God's love to do something
about it, but unless we've selectively chosen to forget God's love dwells in
US if we are children of His, we understand this to mean WE can't sit by and
watch the beloved harmed without doing something about it...whatever we can,
up to the limit of our strength and gifts in the Lord. And none of this is
an excuse for defending our own lives when they are threatened simply so
that we can continue to live on earth. If just staying alive here is our
**only** reason for fighting, then its wrong, and we shouldn't do it. |
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