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Chuck Stamford
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 Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:11 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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"A Watcher" <awatcher@word.com> wrote in message
news:bCisk.29940$TO6.26233@newsfe11.ams2...
| Quote: | Chuck stated:
WE can't sit by and
watch the beloved harmed without doing something about it...whatever we
can,
up to the limit of our strength and gifts in the Lord.
Attacking others and killing them is forbidden by Christ.
Even self-defence is a no,no.
"39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you
on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to
sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If
someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles." Matt 5:39-41
And none of this is
an excuse for defending our own lives when they are threatened simply so
that we can continue to live on earth.
Why else would you do it, but to stay alive?
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Are you blind? To protect the beloved from harm. That's why God does it. |
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Chuck Stamford
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Beautiful! |
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"bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:48B0EF75.46BBF82B@netvigator.com...
Chuck Stamford wrote:
| Quote: |
" ::: good news runner :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:6gmlteFgdq88U1@mid.individual.net...
In news:glen42-9A81A7.15062915082008@news.easynews.com,
Gunny Freedom <glen42@gmail.com> typed:
In article <6gm124Fg83s8U1@mid.individual.net>,
" ::: good news runner :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:glen42-69047C.14063215082008@news.easynews.com,
Gunny Freedom <glen42@gmail.com> typed:
In article <_Ebpk.13561$Bt6.11530@newsfe04.iad>,
"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote:
"Gunny Freedom" <glen42@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:glen42-9780F5.00081315082008@news.easynews.com...
It's just amazing what you people will attempt to justify. 8-)
I do, in all sincerity, pray that the three of you will deal with
this dishonesty before we all stand in the judgement rather than
during it. I have no desire to see you suffer -- even if you do
glee over your attempts to make me suffer. It's wrong, and trust
me -- wrongness is better dealt with now than later.
And I pray that you'll take a flying leap at a rolling donut.
"This dishonesty" you're talking about is yours, so I don't think
any rational human beings will be trusting you anytime soon.
³But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy,
filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing
that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the
new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that
created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor
uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all,
and in all.² Colossians 3:8-11, KJV
Are you answering Chuck there, or me - or do you not really know
yourself?
Amazing contrast there...
I have no doubt that your statement was as sincere as mine.
Christians will not stand in the Judgement. As children of God they
will not have to.
³For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every
one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath
done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the
Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust
also are made manifest in your consciences.² 2 Corinthians 5:10-11,
KJV
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying,
Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute
judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of
all
their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their
hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are
murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth
speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration
because
of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken
before
of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there
should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own
ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having
not
the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy
faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of
some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear,
pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the
flesh. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to
present
you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To
the
only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both
now and ever. Amen. (Jude 1:14-25 KJV)
Why are you trying to intimidate those with Judgement who will not be
judged but the judges?
³For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every
one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath
done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the
Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust
also are made manifest in your consciences.² 2 Corinthians 5:10-11,
KJV
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men
loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (John
3:19 KJV)
You might probably find it unfair - but who are you to judge God?
Liars, however, I have heard, will not enter the gates of Heaven.
³I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me
witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual
sorrow in my heart.² Romans 9:1-2, KJV
³I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me
witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual
sorrow in my heart.² Romans 9:1-2, KJV
"Wrongness"? Good word choice. Literally rolls off the tongue.
I'm going to spend some time on your epic obfuscation you just
published in this thread. You've got so many additional blatant
falsehoods in it you're using to attempt to change direction from
your original lies that I'm having trouble deciding what to leave
in and what to edit out. So many lies, so little time!
Indeed, deception can be powerful. Today, FoxNews is proving
themselves capable of deceiving tens of thousands of otherwise
rational, thoughtful Americans into believing that Russia was the
aggressor against Georgia.
So I have no doubt that you, as a FoxNews acolyte, are capable of
deceiving at least some into believing what you claim about me.
"Highly skilled at propaganda" does not equal "high moral integrity"
though. --
From what I could see, Psalmsmith Gunny Freedom, you are the one who
knows most of the propaganda business as it seems to me. Reading your
latest ten or fifteen posts to me makes that absolutely clear. I do
not think that anyone will buy into that.
³Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but
condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight
of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably
with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give
place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay,
saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he
thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire
on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.²
Romans 12:16-21, KJV
Amen!
Have you read it?
Everyone who is seriously interested in the truth can clearly see
what you are doing.
³That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and
carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and
cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking
the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the
head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and
compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the
effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of
the body unto the edifying of itself in love.² Ephesians 4:14-16, KJV
I am surely not so easily "tossed to and fro and carried about with
every
wind of doctrine"...
Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour:
for we are members one of another. (Ephesians 4:25 KJV)
And now please do not forget not to respond to my post, because you
have promised to have finished with me several times and really look
very dishonest if you post your trash more than ten times after
claiming such a thing. The propaganda is jumping into everyone's
eyes already...
³Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew
out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if
ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie
not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is
earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is
confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is
first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of
mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And
the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.²
James 3:13-18, KJV
So? Lie not against the truth...
So why did you? I guess to treat me equally with Matt for a reason...
You will notice, Vera, that this guy is so slimy, and so stupid that when
you reminded him he had said he was through responding to you, and
therefore
should not respond to your post here, he restricted his response to you to
biblical quotes *HE* chose, as if in doing this, it was "God" responding
to
you instead of this weasel! Do you believe the presumption of this moron?
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Well Chuck, that's what pandering to imaginary deities does
for you.
Chuck:
Bullshit, Bob! I could as easily say, and with as little facts to back me
up, that pretending to know what one can't possibly know (ie., there is no
God or gods) makes one into a reprehensible human being. |
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A Watcher
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2_opk.32819$QX3.8628@newsfe02.iad...
| Quote: |
"A Watcher" <awatcher@word.com> wrote in message
news:mhlpk.2607$Ft5.1124@newsfe29.ams2...
"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jEnok.20358$KZ.18650@newsfe03.iad...
"A Watcher" <awatcher@word.com> wrote in message
news:OAbok.268624$x66.142789@newsfe25.ams2...
"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:_NInk.16691$KZ.161@newsfe03.iad...
Which is Christ's teaching, for even to hate Christ's brethren is to
become a murderer, to actually kill them is diabolical, and that is
what occurred during the last world wars.
Just tell me how it is that God, and the men God ordered to kill other
men, are not "diabolical". That's all I really need you to do, and I'll
listen to anything else you have to say here.
Ok.
It is not 'diabolical' if God who is the Master of all Creation demands
the
death of some-one who He has created and given life to. One the other
hand
it is 'diabolical' and a sin if He gives the command NOT to kill and we
go
ahead and defy Him and to save our lives, or the lives of our family, or
a
possible invasion of the country we live in.
But you have to cite the 10 commandments, specifically the sixth, to show
me where God commands not to kill, and yet we find God ORDERING Saul to go
and kill every man, woman, and child of the Amalekites some 500 years
AFTER HE supposedly commanded men not to kill.
How do you account for the obvious contradiction on your interrpretation
of the sixth commandment? And remember, it's crucial to your position
that you be able to do this, for no where do we find Jesus repudiating the
sixth commandment, except to explain that it extends not just to the act
of murder, but to its motivation as well, which is, as He explains, the
self-gratification.one gets from satisfying their anger.
We must trust Him to take care of us but sometimes God allows hurt and
harm
or the threat of it, to test our faith and compliance to His commands, to
see if we really do love Him more then our own self, wives, and families
or
the country we live in.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see it this way. I see the fact that God made
some teachers, some preachers, some this or that, and that along with
those titles comes the responsiblity to minister to and protect from evil
and harm those whom God has given us, and to do this to the best of our
abilities, trusting in Him to guide us and strengthen us.
God has commanded we not murder one another. He has also commanded us to
love one another. What love sits by and lets the murderer murder the
beloved? Jesus is our example here, is He not? Did He just sit up in
heaven saying to the Father how much he loved us, but so sorry, can't
actually DO anything about the fact we were being slain day in and day out
by the wiles of Satan? No! He came and fought AGAINST Satan, and
defeated Him, and will eventually KILL him forever and ever in the lake of
fire!
God has placed within your charge certain people. These are the people in
your life for whom He has placed His love in your heart for them. God
kills His enemies, we know this. You, if you are to be His tool, must BE
His tool, without trying to be more moral than He is! You need not go out
on a witch hunt, or resort to some sort of nulear option at the first sign
of danger, but you are less than loving with the love of God if you're not
willing to lay down your life to protect those you and God love. And that
means one HECK of a lot more than making some pathetic, useless gesture
that after you're dead doesn't even delay what happens next to those you
love.
THINK of the faithful Christians who were thrown to the Lions and torn
apart
sooner then deny Christ.
I am. I understand being a martyr for the faith. But there you're
talking about laying down your life as a witness for the Gospel. What
"witness" is given in standing by and watching while some man rapes your
wife, or sodomizes your daughter, or sells your son into sexual slavery,
or kills your mother and father? What does that say to the world? That
you loved them? Or that you loved their attacker more than them?
You see, don't you, the problem here. You just can't quite get a handle
on how to keep it from sliding down some "slippery slope" into and excuse
for indiscriminant killing by Christians, where we're back burning people
at the stake, right? Well, for the mature Christian, it doesn't end up
there. It ends up taking into account ALL that God has to say on sin and
death and love and life, and combining it into a way to live one's life
walking in real love - ever ready to lay it down to protect those God
loves, and ever ready to recieve it back from God through faith in Him.
Christ has given the commanded that his brethren must NOT to kill, and
they
won't, even if they have to sacrifice their lives to be obedient.
Thus anyone who does kill, it is murder [an unlawful killing] before God,
as
Christ has forbidden to kill other humans during this Christian era.
That's simply your understanding of the issue, and it's poorly grounded by
any plausible understanding of Scripture, Old or New Testament. I will
grant you, though, that you are certainly not alone in holding it. There
are many pacifist sects in nominal Christianity. Evidently you belong to
one of them.
But until you explain to me how God and those men doing God's will
manage not to be "diabolical" as they kill by the tens of thousands,
literally drench the ground in blood,
See explanation above.
Your "explanation above" seems to proceed more by what it doesn't take
into account in Scripture than what it does, which, at least to me, means
it's a poor explanation.
I'm not really interested in your pov, as I find it self-refuting.
It is only because you have failed to understand the awesome Supremacy of
Almighty God's power both "To kill and make alive"
"39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill,
and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can
deliver out of my hand." Deut 32:39 (KJV)
I would suggest you satisfy yourself with holding onto what you believe to
be true for your own reasons, and not stretch past knowledge available to
you and start telling me mine for my beliefs. I hold the belief the
Christian is duty bound to kill the enemies who would kill the beloved of
the Lord precisely *because* I've made an exstensive study of the matter
in Scripture and believe that study *has* brought me to a full
understanding of the demands of selfless love, shining as a beacon in a
dark and corrupt world.
With that said, I can see we've got little more to say to one another on
the subject, so I'll simply say...
God bless
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Well, I will simply leave you with Scripture teaching.
"11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if
thou dost not commit adultery, but killest, thou art become a transgressor
of the law." James 2:11 (ASV) |
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A Watcher
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:TUlsk.6890$Jk1.2765@newsfe01.iad...
| Quote: |
"A Watcher" <awatcher@word.com> wrote in message
news:bCisk.29940$TO6.26233@newsfe11.ams2...
Chuck stated:
WE can't sit by and
watch the beloved harmed without doing something about it...whatever we
can, up to the limit of our strength and gifts in the Lord.
Attacking others and killing them is forbidden by Christ.
Even self-defence is a no,no.
"39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you
on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants
to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If
someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles." Matt 5:39-41
And none of this is
an excuse for defending our own lives when they are threatened simply so
that we can continue to live on earth.
Why else would you do it, but to stay alive?
Are you blind? To protect the beloved from harm.
|
You speak with such complete deluded contradiction, (you cannot even see it)
you are just not worth debating with.
"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are
accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
Romans 8:36 (KJV)
"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you
on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." |
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Chuck Stamford
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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"A Watcher" <awatcher@word.com> wrote in message
news:NiHsk.380$B44.161@newsfe20.ams2...
| Quote: |
"Chuck Stamford" <shell-stamford@cox.net> wrote in message
news:TUlsk.6890$Jk1.2765@newsfe01.iad...
"A Watcher" <awatcher@word.com> wrote in message
news:bCisk.29940$TO6.26233@newsfe11.ams2...
Chuck stated:
WE can't sit by and
watch the beloved harmed without doing something about it...whatever we
can, up to the limit of our strength and gifts in the Lord.
Attacking others and killing them is forbidden by Christ.
Even self-defence is a no,no.
"39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you
on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants
to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If
someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles." Matt 5:39-41
And none of this is
an excuse for defending our own lives when they are threatened simply so
that we can continue to live on earth.
Why else would you do it, but to stay alive?
Are you blind? To protect the beloved from harm.
You speak with such complete deluded contradiction, (you cannot even see
it) you are just not worth debating with.
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Excellent! Then I will expect you to stop doing it. |
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A Watcher
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:21 am Post subject: Re: "All they that take the sword shall perish with the swor |
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"Pat H" <thewaytoheaven@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:5276-48B0D2FD-1397@storefull-
| Quote: | If you are spiritually inclined to hear what God says through His word,
you should be able to understand that those who approve of war deserve
spiritual death in hell just because they approve of it. It's best to be
safe than sorry, especially when it comes to heaven or hell as your
destiny.
Repay no one evil for evil... Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but
rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I
will repay," says the Lord - Romans 12:17-19. Now someone might refer to
Romans chapter 13, and I will agree. But the USA is not the government
of the world to where every other country has to be subject to obey us
or die. I have no problem with the police carrying guns to enforce the
law. It is like the "for he does not bear the sword in vain" (Romans
13:4). But there is a big difference between carrying a gun to enforce
the law by the governing authorities, than a country going to another
country and taking it over or using bombs on them for revenge. The fact
that this chapter goes on to talk about taxes proves it is about within
a country's own government.
Jesus said, "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you
are not troubled." - Matthew 24:6. Therefore, the war makers are the
trouble makers.
Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a
tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But
whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him also... You
have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your
enemy.' But I say to you love your enemies, bless those who curse you,
do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you
and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven...
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is
perfect." - Matthew 5:38-48.
Jesus said, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts (WMD
accusation), murders (the Greek word phonos also means slaughter, and
that means the killing of people in large numbers, as in battle)...
false witness (WMD accusation was said to be faulty intelligence)...
These are the things which defile a man..." - Matthew 15:19,20.
Jesus said, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the
soul, but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in
hell." - Matthew 10:28.
Jesus said, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself
(lose sight of one's self and one's own interest), and take up his
cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it,
but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what proifit is
it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his soul? Or what
will a man give in exchange for his own soul?" - Matthew 16:24-26
It sure doesn't look like kill them before they MAY kill you with WMD.
Since we are to take up our cross and follow Christ, then we ought to
die, not kill. Following Christ means we die, because that is what He
did. When He was arrested and one of His followers cut the ear off of
one of the enemy's head, Christ said put the sword away and He healed
the man. He could have called a host of angels to fight for Him, but He
willingly died. He did not kill. If you want to follow Christ you will
not kill. You will go ahead and let them kill you. Gaining a worldly
advantage by killing the enemy in war will do you no good in the
afterlife because it will make your soul be lost and headed for hell.
The exchange to give in comparison to that is giving your life. We
should die, not kill.
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for
pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing
that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought
into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all
disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled - 2 Cor. 10:3-6.
Now read what this means...
Strongholds are the reasonings of others against us. I pull down war
supporters words by writing against them with godly truth that we are
not suppose to be warring in the flesh to kill people. We should cast
down (not listen to) everything that doesn't obey Christ. Someone who
tries to justify war by saying it is for protection of the people to
kill other people who might want to kill us is a high thing of pride
that says your life should be saved by killing someone else. Since I
obey Christ (when my obedience is fulfilled) I have a right to
discipline erring brethren (being ready to punish all disobedience).
Punishing disobedience is not about killing all our enemies if we feel
they are disobedient to society. Life is not about the good guys have a
right to kill the bad guys. 2 wrongs don't make a right. Punishing
disobedience is discipline that corrects people who have their high
minded thoughts.
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His
might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand
against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and
blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of
the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the
heavenly places
- Ephesians 6:10-12.
But You have cast us off and put us to shame, and You do not go out with
our armies
- Psalm 44:9.
..Scatter the peoples who delight in war
- Psalm 68:30.
Humans making war against other humans is wrong. If you have no fear of
God, then you can feel comfortable to kill whoever you want to. I'd
rather die than kill and go to hell.
I hope you enjoy my preaching.
Sincerely, Patrick.
|
Yes! it has much sound scripture reasoning which Chuck sadly for him just
refuses to take in, let alone digest and understand.
He will willingly defy Christ and kill and maim if someone threatens to
attack or kill his family or countryman.
Thus sealing his own fate.
"11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if
thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of
the law." James 2:11 (KJV)
During the last two world wars we saw the "fruits" of Chucks arguments and
the wicked futility of professing brethren of Christ killing each other and
then thanking God for their victories.
Christ commands....."But I say, LOVE you enemies."
These reprobates killed even their own brethren. |
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