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Scott Lowther
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 Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: Beyond good and evil |
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In an attempt to convert a useless spamming into a useful discussion
topic... what are people thoughts on "good and evil" with respects to
Asatru?
My view: good and evil exist, but not as some pure entities or forces as
they do in other religions... but more as properties, like kinetic
energy. Some things can be seen as clearly good (rescueing people from
danger, frex), while others can be clearly seen as evil (rape, causing
terror and pain for pleasure, etc.). As memory serves, one of the
nicknames Odin took was "Bolvork" (quite possibly misspelled), meaning
"Evil Doer," because of his propensity to trip up warriors in battle in
order to haul 'em off to Valhalla. While such Machiavellian actions can
be seen as *ultimately* good, clearly the Norse knew of the idea of evil
if they had a word for it. |
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Vindhlers Chyld
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Beyond good and evil |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: | In an attempt to convert a useless spamming into a useful discussion
topic... what are people thoughts on "good and evil" with respects to
Asatru?
My view: good and evil exist, but not as some pure entities or forces
as
they do in other religions... but more as properties, like kinetic
energy. Some things can be seen as clearly good (rescueing people
from
danger, frex), while others can be clearly seen as evil (rape,
causing
terror and pain for pleasure, etc.). As memory serves, one of the
nicknames Odin took was "Bolvork" (quite possibly misspelled),
meaning
"Evil Doer," because of his propensity to trip up warriors in battle
in
order to haul 'em off to Valhalla. While such Machiavellian actions
can
be seen as *ultimately* good, clearly the Norse knew of the idea of
evil
if they had a word for it.
|
My sole opinion of evil is that it does not exist of itself in the
universe, it has been brought forth into manifestation by the likes of
the minds of mankind in Midgard. Everything from nature on up to
science exist on a positive and negative coexistence. I do not see
negative as evil, I see negative as a necessary polar opposite of
positive.
Evil is from the minds of men! That is why Nidhog feeds so well eh. I
am not saying I don't believe evil exist for this would be asinine of
itself to even remotely suggest. I just suggest that it has been bred
into manifestation by mankind, opposed to being a force of, and on it's
own.
Not even the Xian satan started out as evil with fire brimming from his
snout and horns growing from his head. In fact he was much akin to
Loki, but different of course. In the early days of Satan in the church
he was a very handsome and attractive fallen angel that led young woman
astray because he was so easy to be smitten with by way of his
demeanor. It was the minds of men that turned this fallen angel into a
demonic terror. I do believe in the manifestation of things over
extended periods of time. Satan is evil now. Four hundred years of
millions of people have given him this status.
Hahahahaha! Hey! I will have you all know that I was stunned beyond
reason when upon my studies I came across the fact that Thurisaz
belongs ot the devil and means evil!.......Thor where are you! Mutiny
sayeth I!
In Frith and Light from Raven Wolf Harrow,
Michelle |
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Vindhlers Chyld
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Beyond good and evil |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: | In an attempt to convert a useless spamming into a useful discussion
topic... what are people thoughts on "good and evil" with respects to
Asatru?
My view: good and evil exist, but not as some pure entities or forces
as
they do in other religions... but more as properties, like kinetic
energy. Some things can be seen as clearly good (rescueing people
from
danger, frex), while others can be clearly seen as evil (rape,
causing
terror and pain for pleasure, etc.). As memory serves, one of the
nicknames Odin took was "Bolvork" (quite possibly misspelled),
meaning
"Evil Doer," because of his propensity to trip up warriors in battle
in
order to haul 'em off to Valhalla. While such Machiavellian actions
can
be seen as *ultimately* good, clearly the Norse knew of the idea of
evil
if they had a word for it.
|
My sole opinion of evil is that it does not exist of itself in the
universe, it has been brought forth into manifestation by the likes of
the minds of mankind in Midgard. Everything from nature on up to
science exist on a positive and negative coexistence. I do not see
negative as evil, I see negative as a necessary polar opposite of
positive.
Evil is from the minds of men! That is why Nidhog feeds so well eh. I
am not saying I don't believe evil exist for this would be asinine of
itself to even remotely suggest. I just suggest that it has been bred
into manifestation by mankind, opposed to being a force of, and on it's
own.
Not even the Xian satan started out as evil with fire brimming from his
snout and horns growing from his head. In fact he was much akin to
Loki, but different of course. In the early days of Satan in the church
he was a very handsome and attractive fallen angel that led young woman
astray because he was so easy to be smitten with by way of his
demeanor. It was the minds of men that turned this fallen angel into a
demonic terror. I do believe in the manifestation of things over
extended periods of time. Satan is evil now. Four hundred years of
millions of people have given him this status.
Hahahahaha! Hey! I will have you all know that I was stunned beyond
reason when upon my studies I came across the fact that Thurisaz
belongs ot the devil and means evil!.......Thor where are you! Mutiny
sayeth I!
In Frith and Light from Raven Wolf Harrow,
Michelle |
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Doug Freyburger
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Beyond good and evil |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: |
In an attempt to convert a useless spamming into a useful discussion
topic... what are people thoughts on "good and evil" with respects to
Asatru?
|
In technical Christianity good and evil are supposed to
be following or not following Jaweh's law. Note on the
one hand that this isn't what most people actually mean
by the words and on the other hand that it's a PR stunt
that makes members of all other religions evil.
What people generally mean by good and evil are what
is meant by the Asatru words weal and woe. Helping or
harming.
Modern popular Christianity even absorbed the heathen
ideas of woe and weal. I figure the concept of woe and
weal as good and evil probably appear in most or all or
the historical pagan faiths so whether they absorded it
from Asatru the way they absorbed Yule/Xmas from Asatru
isn't all that relevant. They got it from "us" with
"us" having an uncertain degree of generalizaiton.
Hail Asgard!
Doug Freyburger |
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Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Beyond good and evil |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: | In an attempt to convert a useless spamming into a useful discussion
topic... what are people thoughts on "good and evil" with respects to
Asatru?
My view: good and evil exist, but not as some pure entities or forces as
they do in other religions... but more as properties, like kinetic
energy. Some things can be seen as clearly good (rescueing people from
danger, frex), while others can be clearly seen as evil (rape, causing
terror and pain for pleasure, etc.). As memory serves, one of the
nicknames Odin took was "Bolvork" (quite possibly misspelled), meaning
"Evil Doer," because of his propensity to trip up warriors in battle in
order to haul 'em off to Valhalla. While such Machiavellian actions can
be seen as *ultimately* good, clearly the Norse knew of the idea of evil
if they had a word for it.
|
Polarities are a construct of the Human mind.
Nature is undivided.
FFF
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org |
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Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Beyond good and evil |
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Etymology
O.E. yfel (Kentish evel) "bad, vicious," from P.Gmc. *ubilaz (cf.
O.Saxon ubil, Goth. ubils), from PIE *upelo-, giving the word an
original sense of "uppity, overreaching bounds" which slowly worsened.
"In OE., as in all the other early Teut. langs., exc. Scandinavian,
this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of
disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the
Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective
(adj.), or harm, crime, misfortune, disease. The meaning "extreme moral
wickedness" was in O.E., but did not become the main sense until 18c.
Evil eye (L. oculus malus) was O.E. eage yfel. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Beyond good and evil |
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One more, another version of the Indo-European root:
ENTRY: wap-
DEFINITION: Bad, evil. Oldest form *2wap-. Suffixed zero-grade form
*up-elo-. evil, from Old English yfel, evil, from Germanic *ubilaz,
evil. (Not in Pokorny; compare Hittite uwapp-, evil.)
Steve H, are you are lurking? This is your turf.
I haven't weighed in on the issue because I see it as mostly a matter
of semantics. What do we call bad deeds and vicious people? Evil? Okay.
Something else? Fine. Either way, there are bad deeds and people who
are ethically oriented to do, enable, or justify them, and quite often
do not perceive what they are doing as wrong. And the recognition of
this has been around for a long time.
Eric
liberalbear@lycos.com wrote:
| Quote: | Etymology
O.E. yfel (Kentish evel) "bad, vicious," from P.Gmc. *ubilaz (cf.
O.Saxon ubil, Goth. ubils), from PIE *upelo-, giving the word an
original sense of "uppity, overreaching bounds" which slowly worsened.
"In OE., as in all the other early Teut. langs., exc. Scandinavian,
this word is the most comprehensive adjectival expression of
disapproval, dislike or disparagement" [OED]. Evil was the word the
Anglo-Saxons used where we would use bad, cruel, unskillful, defective
(adj.), or harm, crime, misfortune, disease. The meaning "extreme moral
wickedness" was in O.E., but did not become the main sense until 18c.
Evil eye (L. oculus malus) was O.E. eage yfel. |
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