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Vincent Henry Bartning
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 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 7:47 pm Post subject: Federal Civil Rights and the Church |
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Hello all:
Gay rights are not a federal civil-rights matter. States enforce
laws, if any, protecting civil rights in those areas. Federal laws
protect rights based on sex, age, religion, and disability. Moreover,
I believe the Church has ignored civil rights in those already
protected areas while protecting a group that is not protected under
federal laws.
People can do with their bodies what they like, but unjust attitudes
bother me about homosexual rights with the Church. I don't think it's
all gays either, and it could be something else entirely. However,
the recent lax involving moral issues presents a major dilemma.
Men have done a lot for our country... Women put them down, but they
are the ones who pay the highest price, both in service and in
punishment. Moreover, coming from a family where both women and men
receive college educations (my great grandmother, Dr. Beatrice Gelber,
presents an example), I would think that sex discrimination is
something where all of us can relate.
I don't want to make this overly critical. I'm interested in young
women now as a biological clock ticks differently for both sexes. Can
I complain about women living longer statistically too?
U.S. laws prohibit sex discrimination. I have been complaining at the
federal level about being an undergraduate since 1992. I have been a
senior at San Jose State since 1990 when I transferred from
UMASS/Boston. Since that time, my youngest siblings in Massachusetts
have both gotten bachelor degrees, the youngest full brother even
receiving an MBA from Columbia. Big differences abound in subtle
conceptual changes. Fighting for your country, like childbirth, is
different than being able to complain... Ideas?
Vincent H. Bartning
A.A. De Anza '92
A.A. De Anza '96/w honors
Senior/SJSU Since 1990
Check out the USA KIA-DOW Family Foundation
at http://members.aol.com/usakiadowff/portal.html
Check out the USA KIA-DOW Family Discussion
at http://groups.aol.com/usakiadowfamily
The Untied States Honors Their Memories on Presidential Memorial
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Carrie
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Federal Civil Rights and the Church |
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"Vincent Henry Bartning" <bartning@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d4507f46.0308180646.2fa7c6dd@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Hello all:
Gay rights are not a federal civil-rights matter. States enforce
laws, if any, protecting civil rights in those areas. Federal laws
protect rights based on sex, age, religion, and disability. Moreover,
I believe the Church has ignored civil rights in those already
protected areas while protecting a group that is not protected under
federal laws.
People can do with their bodies what they like, but unjust attitudes
bother me about homosexual rights with the Church. I don't think it's
all gays either, and it could be something else entirely. However,
the recent lax involving moral issues presents a major dilemma.
Men have done a lot for our country... Women put them down, but they
are the ones who pay the highest price, both in service and in
punishment. Moreover, coming from a family where both women and men
receive college educations (my great grandmother, Dr. Beatrice Gelber,
presents an example), I would think that sex discrimination is
something where all of us can relate.
I don't want to make this overly critical. I'm interested in young
women now as a biological clock ticks differently for both sexes. Can
I complain about women living longer statistically too?
U.S. laws prohibit sex discrimination. I have been complaining at the
federal level about being an undergraduate since 1992. I have been a
senior at San Jose State since 1990 when I transferred from
UMASS/Boston. Since that time, my youngest siblings in Massachusetts
have both gotten bachelor degrees, the youngest full brother even
receiving an MBA from Columbia. Big differences abound in subtle
conceptual changes. Fighting for your country, like childbirth, is
different than being able to complain... Ideas?
Vincent H. Bartning
A.A. De Anza '92
A.A. De Anza '96/w honors
Senior/SJSU Since 1990
Check out the USA KIA-DOW Family Foundation
at http://members.aol.com/usakiadowff/portal.html
Check out the USA KIA-DOW Family Discussion
at http://groups.aol.com/usakiadowfamily
The Untied States Honors Their Memories on Presidential Memorial
Certificates.
|
I'm not sure I get what your point is in this?
I live in Vermont, where they've had "civil rights" for 2 years now.
Which is like a certificate saying gay people can have the same rights as
married couples (legally).
I agree with this, I mean love and committment is the same, regardless
of gender.
Men AND women have done and do a lot. Men might, at least at one time,
work and go to war more than women, but, I don't think any man has ever had
a baby (LOL)
It evens out.
Where did you live in MA? I grew up in Revere.
~ Carrie |
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Jeanette
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Federal Civil Rights and the Church |
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"Carrie" <starchild1124@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tX50b.122$yQ3.119@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"I live in Vermont, where they've had "civil rights" for 2 years now.
Which is like a certificate saying gay people can have the same rights as
married couples (legally)."
It's about time, and nice to see Vermont's respect for personal dignity.
Jeanette
Join an increasing number who are following the daily lessons, and God
Calling, with Word and melody offered by maz:
http://sound4freedom.fly.to/
and/or
http://dream.signature-art.net/
Encourage others to do so as well. |
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Carrie
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Federal Civil Rights and the Church |
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"Jeanette" <jeanettejoyNoSpam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:h760b.121$kd3.111@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"Carrie" <starchild1124@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tX50b.122$yQ3.119@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"I live in Vermont, where they've had "civil rights" for 2 years now.
Which is like a certificate saying gay people can have the same rights as
married couples (legally)."
It's about time, and nice to see Vermont's respect for personal dignity.
|
Our ex-Governor, Howard Dean was behind it, and got it put through. Even
though there were, and still are "Christian" groups who are still trying to
repeal it. Not only that, they also want to empeach those who voted for it,
and the court (judges) who ruled on it.
I think it's a small, but kind of noisy minorty. There are signs around
that say TAKE BACK VERMONT, which is supposed to mean "Vermonters" don't
want civil rights. But, everyone I've ever talked to, casually- and people
interviewed on the street for the news, etc. either is for it, or just plain
doesn't care (what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom).
As you've probably seen, from Val's posts, Howard Dean is now running for
president. From knowing him as Governor of our state (for 11 years) I can
say he'd probably be a good president. Common sense, not jumping into wars
(unless he was VERY sure there was no other way), and making sure tax money
got used for what it's supposed to be used for.
I read something that said every state has gone bankrupt while Bush (Jr)
has been president. That's not true of Vermont. They give back whatever
surplus they have after taxes are collected every year. This year, they sent
$400 back to anyone with a family, who filed VT taxes.
Not only isn't the state bankrupt, they gave the surplus back to the
people. (We now have a different Governor, but refunding any surpus from
taxes is a tradition).
~ Carrie
| Quote: |
Jeanette
Join an increasing number who are following the daily lessons, and God
Calling, with Word and melody offered by maz:
http://sound4freedom.fly.to/
and/or
http://dream.signature-art.net/
Encourage others to do so as well.
|
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Vincent Henry Bartning
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: Federal Civil Rights and the Church |
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"Jeanette" <jeanettejoyNoSpam@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<h760b.121$kd3.111@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
| Quote: | "Carrie" <starchild1124@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tX50b.122$yQ3.119@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
"I live in Vermont, where they've had "civil rights" for 2 years now.
Which is like a certificate saying gay people can have the same rights as
married couples (legally)."
It's about time, and nice to see Vermont's respect for personal dignity.
Jeanette
|
<snnip>
I think rights protected by the federal government and state should be
protected before state-protected civil rights. Unjust attitudes are
not social justice.
Vincent |
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Vincent Henry Bartning
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Federal Civil Rights and the Church |
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"Carrie" <starchild1124@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<_S70b.232
<snip>
| Quote: | Our ex-Governor, Howard Dean was behind it, and got it put through. Even
though there were, and still are "Christian" groups who are still trying to
repeal it. Not only that, they also want to empeach those who voted for it,
and the court (judges) who ruled on it.
|
All I know is I see the same blocks I saw when I wanted to file a
complaint on the basis of reverse discrimination on the basis of
sexual orientation. Much of my school's Counseling Services are gay,
and many professors and others are as well... My lawyer said the
former head of the Political Science Department at San Jose State was
gay, and I've had a lot of problems there. I have had a good
professor who was gay too, but I'm not happy enough with the clergy
who's helped me, and I don't see what I want in talking about it. My
dad's said he's helped a lot, and he has helped, but I think it could
and should be much better, and he doesn't set his priorities right.
Whether he's gay also seems relevant, but he has helped too...
| Quote: | I think it's a small, but kind of noisy minorty. There are signs around
that say TAKE BACK VERMONT, which is supposed to mean "Vermonters" don't
want civil rights. But, everyone I've ever talked to, casually- and people
interviewed on the street for the news, etc. either is for it, or just plain
doesn't care (what people do in the privacy of their own bedroom).
|
Again, blocks like the ones I saw when I wanted to file a complaint
based on reverse discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation
appear here. I've already been filing at the federal level since
1992, a level where sexual orientation does not receive protection as
a civil right. Race, sex, disability, and it used to be religious
orientation I belive, receive protection as a status at the federal
level to some degree, but they also discriminate, as does God, between
the sexes.
I laugh about it a little here, but I also notice negative feelings.
Hopefully, things will work out...
Also, I wonder if all of the sodomy laws are repealed now, as some did
not distinguish between gay and straight sexual sodomy like Texas's
law did...
| Quote: | As you've probably seen, from Val's posts, Howard Dean is now running for
president. From knowing him as Governor of our state (for 11 years) I can
say he'd probably be a good president. Common sense, not jumping into wars
(unless he was VERY sure there was no other way), and making sure tax money
got used for what it's supposed to be used for.
|
I read an excerpt about him. I don't know. I don't plan to vote for
him at the moment, but I hope the blind spot voters seem to have
regarding their voice gets put into perspective. It shouldn't be so
large that they look stupid like they could have. Californians would
have looked stupid if they would vote a Republican into office on such
short notice I'd imagine. I don't know. A blind spot doesn't
naturally look as big as your entire field of view usually...
However, "God help us all" as Roger Waters says...
| Quote: | I read something that said every state has gone bankrupt while Bush (Jr)
has been president. That's not true of Vermont. They give back whatever
surplus they have after taxes are collected every year. This year, they sent
$400 back to anyone with a family, who filed VT taxes.
|
All I know is that I'm in a major financial mess in an extremely
unjust fashion. Some of it has to do with bias in the family, but
it's not a bias that should have been supported at the social level.
From my mother's preference of the siblings she raised to other
strange biases, I suppose an effect occurs, but it's also people she
brought into the family who acted violently, and there's a major
injustice. She's been married three times, and both of my younger
brothers have also been married. I haven't even been engaged or lived
with a woman whereas my younger one here has lived with several...
The also seemed to get preferences in other areas they shouldn't have
and didn't before. Lucky for me in a way I have Course ideas, but
it's also put me into this mess. I use a tool right now, but it's
hard to convince myself that things will work out, and I've got
misperceptions all over the place. I chuckle again here, but
hopefully it'll get corrected. Major, major, major injustice
abounds... 2/3 of my younger siblings own property now, and they all
have their degrees, the youngest an MBA from Columbia... Go figure,
and I don't like it on many levels...
<snip>
Vincent
Check out the USA KIA-DOW Family Foundation
at http://members.aol.com/usakiadowff/portal.html
Check out the USA KIA-DOW Family Discussion
at http://groups.aol.com/usakiadowfamily
The Untied States Honors Their Memories on Presidential Memorial
Certificates. |
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