| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Victor LeNettoyeur©
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:36 am Post subject: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
 |
|
Hey Lupo,
Have you ever read this book? If so, what do you think?
It seems like it might be a good introduction for everyman to quantum field
theory, though it takes a keen eye sometimes to separate the real science
from the metaphysical boolshit. Zukav is one of those touchy-feely new
agers who promotes his religious views on Oprah and the like. I came away
impressed with his explanation of the EPR effect and a few other things
though. It got good reviews by Scientific American when it came out; though
SA is admittedly not nature, it's not Omni either.
Victor |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
People's Commissar
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:18 am Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
What do you think of sociology. Do you think that it is science?
"Lupo LeBoucher" <ix@io.com> wrote in message
news:YvSdnQBqmdsaGNOiXTWJhg@io.com...
| Quote: | In article <Xns93E58048AA2A9vic@electric.hellfire>,
Victor LeNettoyeur© <victor@blaspherionworld.zzn.com> wrote:
Hey Lupo,
Have you ever read this book? If so, what do you think?
It seems like it might be a good introduction for everyman to quantum
field
theory, though it takes a keen eye sometimes to separate the real science
from the metaphysical boolshit. Zukav is one of those touchy-feely new
agers who promotes his religious views on Oprah and the like. I came away
impressed with his explanation of the EPR effect and a few other things
though. It got good reviews by Scientific American when it came out;
though
SA is admittedly not nature, it's not Omni either.
It wasn't Omni when the Zukov book came out. It kinda is now a days.
I have to admit, I used to like this kind of "wisdom of the ancients"
bulldukey. I liked, "The Tao of Physics" a lot better than the Wu-Li
thing, though the guy who wrote that is in a religious cult. I liked this
stuff when I was an undergraduate and prior to that, a pot-head. Now, I
can't stand this kind of mystical gorp, no matter how good their
explanations of the EPR effect might be.
Of course, mystical "wisdom of the ancients" bulldukey sells. Some day
Brother Lupo his own bad self will write such a book, but it won't be
filled with so much baloney. Modern popular science writing is an
atrocity; I figure even a knucklehead like me could do well.
I seem to remember liking "From Atoms to Quarks" by James Trefil when I
was a lot younger, as an intro book without all the nonsense.
-Lupo
"I think a nationwide program of hygienic vaginal corking would go a long
way towards civilizing our culture" -- Cliff Low <ix@io.com
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Neskoreni
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:19 am Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
"Lupo LeBoucher" <ix@io.com> wrote in message
news:YvSdnQBqmdsaGNOiXTWJhg@io.com...
| Quote: | In article <Xns93E58048AA2A9vic@electric.hellfire>,
Victor LeNettoyeur© <victor@blaspherionworld.zzn.com> wrote:
Hey Lupo,
Have you ever read this book? If so, what do you think?
It seems like it might be a good introduction for everyman to quantum
field
theory, though it takes a keen eye sometimes to separate the real science
from the metaphysical boolshit. Zukav is one of those touchy-feely new
agers who promotes his religious views on Oprah and the like. I came away
impressed with his explanation of the EPR effect and a few other things
though. It got good reviews by Scientific American when it came out;
though
SA is admittedly not nature, it's not Omni either.
It wasn't Omni when the Zukov book came out. It kinda is now a days.
|
I met Zukav up by Shasta. Wu Li was interesting, dunno about accuracy. It
had a new age feel.
Capra runs a cult? (Tao of Physics)
JN |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
People's Commissar
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:08 am Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
Jason, Capra doesn't know Taoism! Not sure if he knows physics.
"Neskoreni" <neskoreni@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:%5w3b.10853$v57.3126@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
| Quote: |
"Lupo LeBoucher" <ix@io.com> wrote in message
news:YvSdnQBqmdsaGNOiXTWJhg@io.com...
In article <Xns93E58048AA2A9vic@electric.hellfire>,
Victor LeNettoyeur© <victor@blaspherionworld.zzn.com> wrote:
Hey Lupo,
Have you ever read this book? If so, what do you think?
It seems like it might be a good introduction for everyman to quantum
field
theory, though it takes a keen eye sometimes to separate the real
science
from the metaphysical boolshit. Zukav is one of those touchy-feely new
agers who promotes his religious views on Oprah and the like. I came
away
impressed with his explanation of the EPR effect and a few other things
though. It got good reviews by Scientific American when it came out;
though
SA is admittedly not nature, it's not Omni either.
It wasn't Omni when the Zukov book came out. It kinda is now a days.
I met Zukav up by Shasta. Wu Li was interesting, dunno about accuracy. It
had a new age feel.
Capra runs a cult? (Tao of Physics)
JN
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Neskoreni
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 5:21 am Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
"People's Commissar" <satanicreds@www.com> wrote in message
news:mQw3b.16350$jY2.12832@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Jason, Capra doesn't know Taoism! Not sure if he knows physics.
|
I've only read Wu Li Masters.
JN |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Lupo LeBoucher
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:09 am Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
In article <%5w3b.10853$v57.3126@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>,
Neskoreni <neskoreni@netscape.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Lupo LeBoucher" <ix@io.com> wrote in message
news:YvSdnQBqmdsaGNOiXTWJhg@io.com...
In article <Xns93E58048AA2A9vic@electric.hellfire>,
Victor LeNettoyeur© <victor@blaspherionworld.zzn.com> wrote:
It wasn't Omni when the Zukov book came out. It kinda is now a days.
I met Zukav up by Shasta. Wu Li was interesting, dunno about accuracy. It
had a new age feel.
|
Figures; filthy fucking hippies.
| Quote: | Capra runs a cult? (Tao of Physics)
|
No, he is in a cult. I understand he is associated with the Maharishi
yoyos. I could be wrong. Anyway, he is quite full of beans. Figures, he's
in Berkeley also. "Center for eco-consciousness" indeed; I hope it gets
him laid.
Here's something I just found regarding these guys and their mystical
gorp:
http://skepdic.com/ayurvedic.html
http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:aphR--QlUq8J:spot.colorado.edu/~vstenger/Quantum/QuantumConsciousness.pdf+Fritjof+Capra++maharishi&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
-Lupo, who hates filthy hippies
"There's not one of them who is not degrading, man and woman, all of them
animated stomachs guided by the high intellectual and artistic impulses of
clams." -Martin Eden <ix@io.com> |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Dan Clore
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:06 am Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
"Victor LeNettoyeur©" wrote:
| Quote: | It seems like it might be a good introduction for everyman to quantum field
theory, though it takes a keen eye sometimes to separate the real science
from the metaphysical boolshit. Zukav is one of those touchy-feely new
agers who promotes his religious views on Oprah and the like. I came away
impressed with his explanation of the EPR effect and a few other things
though. It got good reviews by Scientific American when it came out; though
SA is admittedly not nature, it's not Omni either.
|
Nick Herbert's _Quantum Reality_ provides an ideal
introduction to the subject. Probably better to get a
background in both quantum mechanics and eastern mysticism
before reading attempts to compare the two.
--
Dan Clore
Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1587154838/thedanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
"It's a political statement -- or, rather, an
*anti*-political statement. The symbol for *anarchy*!"
-- Batman, explaining the circle-A graffiti, in
_Detective Comics_ #608 |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Lupo LeBoucher
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
In article <3F4EDF41.D58F4967@columbia-center.org>,
Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
| Quote: | "Victor LeNettoyeur©" wrote:
It seems like it might be a good introduction for everyman to quantum field
theory, though it takes a keen eye sometimes to separate the real science
from the metaphysical boolshit. Zukav is one of those touchy-feely new
agers who promotes his religious views on Oprah and the like. I came away
impressed with his explanation of the EPR effect and a few other things
though. It got good reviews by Scientific American when it came out; though
SA is admittedly not nature, it's not Omni either.
Nick Herbert's _Quantum Reality_ provides an ideal
introduction to the subject. Probably better to get a
background in both quantum mechanics and eastern mysticism
before reading attempts to compare the two.
|
Meh, Herbert is at least the real deal -though he was a student of Bohm's.
Bohm was also the real deal, but he was a bona-fide nut-bar. I suspect
Herbert is kind of a nut by association. I've certainly read relatively
fruity things by him along the way.
It's certainly better than the Zukav or Capra books though.
There's another guy in this broad category, Fred Allen Wolf. I think he
was another Bohm Student -also a flakey pop science newage rhymes with
sewage kind of guy.
-Lupo
"The world, as all things, always was, is and will ever be eternally
living fire, regularly becoming ignited and regularly becoming
extinguished." -Heraclitus <ix@io.com> |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Victor LeNettoyeur©
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: For Lupo - Gary Zukav's Dancing Wu Li Masters |
|
|
ix@io.com (Lupo LeBoucher) had the nerve to write in
news:YvSdnQBqmdsaGNOiXTWJhg@io.com:
| Quote: | In article <Xns93E58048AA2A9vic@electric.hellfire>,
Victor LeNettoyeur© <victor@blaspherionworld.zzn.com> wrote:
Hey Lupo,
Have you ever read this book? If so, what do you think?
It seems like it might be a good introduction for everyman to quantum
field theory, though it takes a keen eye sometimes to separate the
real science from the metaphysical boolshit. Zukav is one of those
touchy-feely new agers who promotes his religious views on Oprah and
the like. I came away impressed with his explanation of the EPR effect
and a few other things though. It got good reviews by Scientific
American when it came out; though SA is admittedly not nature, it's
not Omni either.
It wasn't Omni when the Zukov book came out. It kinda is now a days.
|
I'll have to check out SA one of these days. I haven't cracked a copy in
over a year. Omni, last I checked, was something like the Art Bell show
in glossy zine format. I read an issue in the dentist's office a few
years ago and was very impressed (the impression wasn't favorable).
| Quote: | I have to admit, I used to like this kind of "wisdom of the ancients"
bulldukey. I liked, "The Tao of Physics" a lot better than the Wu-Li
thing, though the guy who wrote that is in a religious cult. I liked
this stuff when I was an undergraduate and prior to that, a pot-head.
Now, I can't stand this kind of mystical gorp, no matter how good
their explanations of the EPR effect might be.
|
The tragedy of _Wu Li_ is its potential for greatness that never quite
materializes. It'd be the perfect popular physics primer if it were a
bit more objective.
I'll cite an example. One of the first things that's discussed is
photons and wave functions. The author does a marvelous job in the first
chapter explaining the whole wave/particle duality. He does a little
segue after the introduction and seamlessly leads in to Tom Young's 19th
century double-slit diffraction experiment. (For the peanut gallery, a
rundown is here: http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/light/node9.html).
At the end of a very thorough discourse, Zukav leads the reader into
believing that the whole resultant non-locality question (how does a
single lightwave interact when one slit is open rather than closed?) can
most likely be explained by only a couple of conclusions. One suggestion
is that subatomic particles possess a human-like consciousness or
numinous quality. The light wave "sees" the other open slit and steers
itself in the proper direction. Another is that there is some sort of
conscious force controlling the universe: i.e. "God" steers the photon
to the right place on the photographic plate.
The book continues on these basic patterns throughout. The science seems
very good and the book is very readable, but in the end it's just used
as so much propaganda to suggest a scientific foundation for Zukav's
religious beliefs.
| Quote: | Of course, mystical "wisdom of the ancients" bulldukey sells. Some day
Brother Lupo his own bad self will write such a book, but it won't be
filled with so much baloney. Modern popular science writing is an
atrocity; I figure even a knucklehead like me could do well.
|
If you manage to distill the Feynman lectures into something shorter and
that sells for less than $20. I'll be first in line to buy several
copies. Feynman's work ought to be an essential part of any home with
children, but it's a bit on the expensive side and somewhat long-winded.
It's quite sad that kids of the junior high age aren't even remotely
familiar with this stuff. It's interesting enough to capture a wide
audience and appeal to imagination, but only if the author can write in
an entertaining and down-to-earth fashion (and besides Feynman and
Zukav, I have yet to see anything that meets these criteria).
Michio Kaku, Carl Sagan and Steven Hawking (among many others) have
tried to write popular books giving decent information on science, but
their stuff is hopelessly watered down in an attempt to appeal to the
lowest common denominator. Their best efforts have thus appealed to
nearly nobody. Serious readers find their pop-science work to be
puerile, silly and disappointing; meanwhile the television junkies they
attempt to appeal to would rather flip on the Star Trek re-runs than
read an actual book.
| Quote: | I seem to remember liking "From Atoms to Quarks" by James Trefil when
I was a lot younger, as an intro book without all the nonsense.
|
Thanks d00d. I'll certainly check that one out.
One that I was impressed with early in life was called _Understanding
Relativity_. I've searched for a copy in vain over the years, and I'm
pretty sure it is out of print.
Victor |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
