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Douglas McAdam
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: Independent investigation |
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Dear friends-
For some time now this subject has been brought up in connection with
blind faith, blind imitation etc. What I would like to do is have a
discussion on what this means.
What is independent investigation of truth and reality?
How is it done?
What do the Writings say about this principle?
Do the Writings tell us how to conduct an independent investigation?
What is truth?
What is Reality?
How do we really know that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God?
How do we know He is infallible?
How do we really know the Writings are truth?
How do we really know that there was a Jesus, a Muhammad, etc.?
Should be an interesting discussion I would think.
regards,
doug |
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Kent Johnson
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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Hi Doug,
My take on the Baha'i principle of "Independent Investigation of Truth" is
that this principle means we each have to decide for ourselves what it
means. I don't mean it is just another of the myriad things Baha'u'llah
said to do that inspire us, (oooo, aaaah, wow, He said that!). No, I mean
we should actually do it.
To some that might seem a connundrum, but I don't think so. Religions have
such divergent and conflicting beliefs, and even the idea of religion itself
brings to many strong personal and conflicting feelings, that it is a
responsibility of those who have a religion to be satisfied within ourselves
with what it means to have a religion, and with our own religions.
How much more necessary it is for Baha'is, who own that principle, to
understand intimately what that principle means to each of us, personally.
To me the principle is like the other Baha'i basic principles, such as
elimination of prejudice, spiritual solution to economic problems, world
unity, universal auxiliary language, universal religion, equality of the
sexes, in that it makes no difference if we become Baha'i or not, this is a
principle the generality of humanity is adopting, slowly but surely.
What do the Writings say?
"Among these teachings was the independent investigation of reality so that
the world of humanity may be saved from the darkness of imitation and attain
to the truth; may tear off and cast away this ragged and outgrown garment of
a thousand years ago and may put on the robe woven in the utmost purity and
holiness in the loom of reality. As reality is one and cannot admit of
multiplicity, therefore different opinions must ultimately become fused into
one." (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 298)
"He must not rely implicitly upon the opinion of any man without
investigation; nay, each soul must seek intelligently and independently,
arriving at a real conclusion and bound only by that reality." (Abdu'l-Baha,
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 291)
"The first principle Bahá'u'lláh urged was the independent investigation of
truth. "Each individual," he said, "is following the faith of his ancestors
who themselves are lost in the maze of tradition. Reality is steeped in
dogmas and doctrines. If each investigate for himself, he will find that
Reality is one; does not admit of multiplicity; is not divisible. All will
find the same foundation and all will be at peace."
(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 276)
"The basic principle of the Cause is independent investigation of truth.
This applies to us as much as to our children. They should be free to chose
for themselves any religion they wish. To promise that they will belong to a
certain Faith and not to another is therefore not only contrary to our
precepts, but is also a futile promise to give. How can we make the future
generation think as we do or follow our dictates. God has made them free.
All that we can do is to open their eyes and tell them of what we think to
be the truth."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 156)
You:
"Do the Writings tell us how to conduct an independent investigation?
What is truth?
What is Reality?
How do we really know that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God?
How do we know He is infallible?
How do we really know the Writings are truth?
How do we really know that there was a Jesus, a Muhammad, etc.?"
How to conduct an independent investigation? Well, not by using the ideas
of others, unless you decide, independently, that those ideas are good
ideas. One must investigate independently.
"Truth" and "reality" are well used words in our language. Perhaps your
question is deeper, but to understand it beyond a basic groping for meaning
I will need you to explain it further.
You: "How do we really know that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God?" Do
we believe Baha'u'llah was God on earth? If so, we believe He showed the
qualities of God on earth. As we have no way of proving what those
qualities are, it is a matter of faith that God shows the same qualities
Baha'u'llah showed the peoples of the earth.
You: "How do we know He is infallible?"
Now there is a less well-used word in our language. In order for me to say
whether or not Baha'u'llah, or God, is "infallible" I will need a verifiable
definition of infallible.
Here are three from thefreedictionary.com:
1. Incapable of erring: an infallible guide; an infallible source of
information.
2. Incapable of failing; certain: an infallible antidote; an infallible
rule.
3. Roman Catholic Church Incapable of error in expounding doctrine on faith
or morals.
So God and Baha'u'llah are, in my opinion incapable of erring. Whatever
happens is right and good and true. This is part and parcel, in my opinion,
to loving the One True God. If I think He is wrong, in error, bad or mean I
couldn't love Him.
I also think the world is on a general and true path to fulfilling God's
plan, and that plan will not fail, so yes, according to definition number 2
God and Baha'u'llah are infallible according my independent investigation of
the truth of the matter.
I also happen to think that the Writings, insofar as they reflect the
meaning of Baha'u'llah, are not in error in the doctrine, faith and morals
they expound. So in that way Baha'u'llah was infallible on all three
counts.
"How do we really know..." sounds like more groping for meaning to me.
Perhaps you could clarify those questions.
--Kent
"Douglas McAdam" <douglasmcadam@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:CMKdnU7jZt4N3hLanZ2dnUVZ_rOqnZ2d@giganews.com...
| Quote: | Dear friends-
For some time now this subject has been brought up in connection with
blind faith, blind imitation etc. What I would like to do is have a
discussion on what this means.
What is independent investigation of truth and reality?
How is it done?
What do the Writings say about this principle?
Do the Writings tell us how to conduct an independent investigation?
What is truth?
What is Reality?
How do we really know that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God?
How do we know He is infallible?
How do we really know the Writings are truth?
How do we really know that there was a Jesus, a Muhammad, etc.?
Should be an interesting discussion I would think.
regards,
doug
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Sen
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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On Jan 17, 1:43 pm, "Kent Johnson" <k...@compx2.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In order for me to say
whether or not Baha'u'llah, or God, is "infallible" I will need a verifiab~\
le
definition of infallible.
Here are three from thefreedictionary.com:
|
Wouldn't it be more sensible to look at what Baha'u'llah himself says
about the meaning of the word: it is significantly different to the
meaning in any dictionary I've seen.
Infallibility in the Bahai writings does not mean never being wrong.
Baha'u'llah for instance was wrong on some historical and scientific
matters. Bahai infallibility is in the first place an attribute of
God,
and as such is shared with the whole creation, and its meaning is
defined
as "free from sin" that is, not bound by sin, free to do otherwise.
Infallibility is a statement that sin does not reign -- except when we
allow it to. It is an attribute of empowerment, a statement of our
liberty
from what seems to us to bind us. At every breathe, we are free to
start
again with a fresh slate. That is why the new believer is assured by
Baha'u'llah:
Thou hast mentioned Husayn. We have attired his temple with the
robe
of forgiveness and adorned his head with the crown of pardon. ...
Say:
Be not despondent. After the revelation of this blessed verse it
is as
though thou hast been born anew from thy mother's womb. Say: Thou
art
free from sin and error. Truly God hath purged thee with the
living
waters of His utterance in His Most Great Prison.
(Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 76)
This is infallibility at the individual level.
In the same way, sovereignty is an attribute of God, and the
individual can choose sovereignty for himself:
"Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a
sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)
This is sovereignty at the individual level. Each of the attributes of
God takes different forms at different
levels. So the kings are called "the manifestations of affluence and
power
and the daysprings of sovereignty and glory" (Epistle to the Son of
the
Wolf, p. 30), and in the Aqdas are told: "Arise, and serve Him Who is
the
Desire of all nations, Who hath created you ... and
ordained you to be, for all time, the emblems of His sovereignty."
This is the manifestation of the attribute sovereignty at the
institutional level, and in the political sphere. At the
same time, the founders of religions exhibit a different kind of
sovereignty: "by sovereignty is meant the all- encompassing, all-
pervading
power which is inherently exercised by the Qá'im whether or not He
appear
to the world clothed in the majesty of earthly dominion. ... That
sovereignty is the spiritual ascendancy which He exerciseth.."
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 107)
The same is true of infallibility: it takes different forms in the
individual, in institutions, in relationships and so on.
"Know thou that the term 'Infallibility' hath numerous meanings
and
divers stations. In one sense it is applicable to the One Whom God
hath made immune from error. Similarly it is applied to every soul
whom God hath guarded against sin, transgression, rebellion,
impiety,
disbelief and the like. However, the Most Great Infallibility is
confined to the One Whose station is immeasurably exalted beyond
ordinances or prohibitions and is sanctified from errors and
omissions." (Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 108).
I will puzzle out the details of this below, but we can note now that
it
includes "every soul" but not all in the same sense, and that it says
NOTHING about not being wrong: it is all about not **doing** wrong.
And we
can look to the next page and see that the example of the Most Great
Infallibility which Baha'u'llah gives is the designation of Mecca as
the
place of pilgrimage. Muhammad puts Mecca in place of Jerusalem. He
changed the Law of God. "Consider thou the blessed, the divinely-
revealed
verse in which pilgrimage to the House is enjoined upon everyone. It
devolved upon those invested with authority after Him to observe
whatever
had been prescribed unto them in the Book. Unto no one is given the
right
to deviate from the laws and ordinances of God...." (There's a
critiique
here of the Umayyid Caliphs in Damascus, who tried to make Jerusalem
at
least a rival place of pilgrimage). So the example of infallibility is
that Muhammad changed the place of pilgrimage, and all after him had
to
obey that change. Except we do not go to Mecca on pilgrimage, do we?
Baha'u'llah changed the Law again. Infallibility in Bahai teachings
obviously has something to do with change.
It is not just that infallibility means "being always right but only
within one dispensation" -- which would be nonsensical anyway. It is
stronger: infallibility actually MEANS freedom from bondage and
therefore
the freedom to change. In the case of the Manifestation, it means the
freedom not to be bound by the Law of God as it was up till then. In
the
case of House of Justice, it is bound by what is revealed in the Book,
but
it is free to change its own rulings. It can say, "sorry, that is
wrong"
or "that is no longer best" and head off in another direction. The UHJ
is
not bound by its own history, or by the need to appear consistent to
the
world. If is FREE, in a way that the Pope is not. He, like the Shaykh
al-Azhar and the Shi`ah Mujtahids, dare not be seen to change what the
authorities before them have laid down. They are prisoners of history,
and
of the expectations of the faithful.
I said I would puzzle out the passage from the Ishraqat about
infallibility in more detail. In Taherzadeh's translation of the
Ishraqat, Baha'u'llah explains that he has
delayed unveiling the doctrine because it will elicit opposition from
the
`ulamaa' and persecution for the faithful. Then he prefaces the actual
explanation with a restatement of the sovereignty of the
Manifestation,
and the threat this represents to existing religions:
... thou didst firmly adhere unto seemly patience during the days
when
the Pen was held back from movement and the Tongue hesitated to
set
forth an explanation regarding the wondrous sign [al-ayah al-
`azmii],
the Most Great Infallibility [`ismat al-kabrii]. Thou hast asked
this
Wronged One to remove for thee its veils and coverings ... We
restrained the Pen for a considerable lapse of time in accordance
with
divine wisdom [hikmat] and for the sake of protecting the faithful
.... The All-Merciful is come invested with power and sovereignty.
Through His power the foundations of religions have quaked ...
Know
thou that the term ‘Infallibility' [`ismat] hath numerous meanings
and
divers stations [ma`aan shattaa wa maqaamat shattaa = diverse
meanings
and diverse stations].
The reason why infallibility (in its Bahai meaning) causes the
foundations of religions to quake, is that in Bahai teachings
infallibility entails change and freedom to change, whereas in
previous religions it is used
as a buttress *against* change. ( !! ) The parallel construction in
the last sentence links the diversity in meaning to the different
stations or levels at which infallibility applies, as we have seen
above. Taherzadeh's translation continues
In one sense it [infallibility] is applicable to the One Whom God
hath
made immune from error.
"‘In one sense" does not appear in the text, and the capitalisation of
One,
implying that this is the first station, the most great infallibility
of
the Manifestation, is an inference by the translator. In my view it is
incorrect: this sentence and the following one are talking about the
general use of the term, and its Arabic etymology. What it says
literally
is:
Where there is one whom God guards (`s.mahu) from slipping
(az-zalal), he (God) confers upon him this name (infallible) as a
station [fii maqaam].
Baha'u'llah is emphasising that the word `ismat comes from the verb
`sm, to guard or protect, and the concept ‘infallible' means that God
has
protected someone from something - in the first case, from a slip.
Zalal
is a simpler term than khataa', it means a lapse, slip or mistake.
Coincidentally, this explanation works in English: in-fall- ible means
‘saved from falling,' as if God is beside us and catches our elbow
when we
are about to fall.
The text continues, in my translation:
Similarly where God has guarded anyone from sin (khataa' ),
rebellion
(`isyaan), impiety (`iraaz) disbelief (kufr), joining partners
with
God (shirk) and the like, God grants each and every one of them
the
name of ‘infallibility.'
In short, where God guards anyone from anything, this guarding is
called ‘ismat.
However, the Most Great Infallibility belongs to the One Whose
station is a holiness above ordinances and prohibitions and an
exemption from sin (khataa') and forgetfulness (nisyaan).] Indeed
He
is a Light which is not succeeded by darkness and a suitability
[s.awaab = rightness, fittingness, perhaps righteousness here?]
that
is not subject to sin/failing (khataa'). Were He to pronounce upon
water the decree of wine (i.e., that it is forbidden) or upon
heaven
the decree of earth, or upon light the decree of fire, it is the
truth
[haqq = truth, reality, legal right] and there is no doubt about
it;
and it is not for anyone to object to it (or, against him) or to
say
‘why and wherefore?.' If anyone objects, he is one of the
objectors in
the Book of God, the Lord of the worlds. Truly, he is "He shall
not be
asked of His doings, but they shall be questioned."
The Qur'an verse (21:23) refers to God, but the subject of this
paragraph is the Manifestation of God. The last sentence asserts that
the
Manifestation is in this respect like God: free to do as he (or she)
wills, without having to answer to others. This freedom includes
changing
laws, of which the extreme example would be to forbid the believers to
drink water. It includes changing the language and symbols of the
religions, in which, for instance, fire has been the symbol of
punishment
and disgrace, and light symbolises insight and purity. What is meant
by
pronouncing the decree of earth upon heaven? We imagine the physical
and
metaphorical heavens to be unchanging, while the earth (or the sub-
lunar
realm in medieval cosmology) is the realm of change, relativity and
conditionality. The Manifestation has the authority to introduce
change
into "heaven" -- into religion.
He is come from the invisible heaven (or: the heaven of
concealment), and with him the banner `He doeth whatsoever He
willeth' and the hosts of power and authority (ikhtiyaar, which is
authority in the sense of being able to *choose*) while it is the
duty
of all besides Him to hold fast to the religious laws (shari`ah)
and
ordinances (ahkaam) that have been enjoined upon them. Should
anyone
transgress them, even to the extent of a single hair, his work
will
miscarry.
The last sentence need not mean that one who ignores the religious
laws will not prosper in this world – the opposite is quite likely.
The worst sort of people generally rise to the top. It seems more
likely to mean that respect and obedience for the religious laws is a
condition for the acceptability of good works in the eyes of God, and
for
the success of the mystic's efforts. |
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Susan Maneck
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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That is why the new believer is assured by
| Quote: | Baha'u'llah:
Thou hast mentioned Husayn. We have attired his temple with the
robe
of forgiveness and adorned his head with the crown of pardon. ...
Say:
Be not despondent. After the revelation of this blessed verse it
is as
though thou hast been born anew from thy mother's womb. Say: Thou
art
free from sin and error. Truly God hath purged thee with the
living
waters of His utterance in His Most Great Prison.
(Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 76)
|
Uh Sen, the above was not addressed to a new believer. My recollection
is that it was addressed to Husayn Aschii after he had begged
Baha'u'llah's forgiveness for some misdeed.
| Quote: |
This is infallibility at the individual level.
|
*That's* a big stretch. I don't see ismat or ma'sum being used in
that passage anywhere.
| Quote: | In the same way, sovereignty is an attribute of God, and the
individual can choose sovereignty for himself:
"Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a
sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)
This is sovereignty at the individual level. \
|
How is any of this revelant to the issue of how Baha'u'llah's usage of
the word "infallibility"?
| Quote: | The same is true of infallibility: it takes different forms in the
individual, in institutions, in relationships and so on.
"Know thou that the term 'Infallibility' hath numerous meanings
and
divers stations. In one sense it is applicable to the One Whom God
hath made immune from error. Similarly it is applied to every soul
whom God hath guarded against sin, transgression, rebellion,
impiety,
disbelief and the like. However, the Most Great Infallibility is
confined to the One Whose station is immeasurably exalted beyond
ordinances or prohibitions and is sanctified from errors and
omissions." (Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 108).
I will puzzle out the details of this below, but we can note now that
it
includes "every soul" but not all in the same sense,
|
Whoah! That is not what the passage said. It didn't say infallibility
included "every soul" it says it inclued "every soul whom God hath
guarded against sin, transgression, rebellion,
impiety." In fact, there aren't many souls whom God has guarded from all sin.
and that it says
| Quote: | NOTHING about not being wrong: it is all about not **doing** wrong.
|
With that part I would agree, except I would add that not
'doing wrong' means not doing anything which is contrary to the Will of God.
| Quote: | And we
can look to the next page and see that the example of the Most Great
Infallibility which Baha'u'llah gives is the designation of Mecca as
the
place of pilgrimage. Muhammad puts Mecca in place of Jerusalem. He
changed the Law of God. <snip> Infallibility in Bahai teachings
obviously has something to do with change.
|
I think you are missing the point. It seems to me the point
Baha'u'llah wants to make about the Most Great Infallibility as
opposed to the lesser forms is that those possesing the lesser forms
of infallibity do what is right, but the Most Great Infallibilty of
the Manifestation determines what the right is. .
It is
| Quote: | stronger: infallibility actually MEANS freedom from bondage and
therefore
the freedom to change.
|
Again, a huge stretch from what Baha'u'llah actually said.
In the case of the Manifestation, it means the
| Quote: | freedom not to be bound by the Law of God as it was up till then.
|
No, it means that the Manifestation Himself determines what the Law of God is.
In
| Quote: | the
case of House of Justice, it is bound by what is revealed in the Book,
but
it is free to change its own rulings. It can say, "sorry, that is
wrong"
or "that is no longer best" and head off in another direction.
|
It may well say "that is no longer best" but it doesn't say "sorry,
that is wrong." The decison they made previously reflects the will of
God as much as the one which later replaces it.
| Quote: | The reason why infallibility (in its Bahai meaning) causes the
foundations of religions to quake, is that in Bahai teachings
infallibility entails change and freedom to change, whereas in
previous religions it is used
as a buttress *against* change. ( !! )
|
No, that isn't the issue. The issue is that Baha''u'llah can't explain
about the nature of infallibility without making certain claims
regarding His own station. To claim the Most Great Infallibity in the
sense He had defined it would be interpreted as shirk or joining
partners with God by most Muslims. Just ask Paul or Gilberto.
Aside from that, the 'ulama really have no problem with the notion of
God's will changing. Badaa has always been a recognized part of
Shi'ite theology.
Susan |
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Kent Johnson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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Hi Sen, nice to talk with you.
"Bahai infallibility is in the first place an attribute of God, and as such
is shared with the whole creation, and its meaning is defined as "free from
sin" that is, not bound by sin, free to do otherwise."
Oh if it were only that simple.
Interpretation of Baha'i Writings, of all religious writing, of all writing
in general, is an exercise in trying to figure out what the writer is
writing about. We can take the route you and Susan seem to advocate, find
how other people used the words Baha'u'llah used in the time Baha'u'llah
lived, and extrapolate from there. But that is not the only way to
interpret words, especially not if you believe Baha'u'llah's teachings are
universal. But that is what you are asking me to do here, and I will
oblige.
It is nice to know that you believe you have support for the position that
the word or words translated into English by the Guardian and others as
"infallible" meant also "free from sin" to some in that time and place and
later. I am not sure how useful that information is, however. Doug was using
the word as a way of testing or examining his faith.
"Say: Thou art free from sin and error." (Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 76)
Evidently, from this quote, there is a difference between being free from
sin and being free from error, unless you interpret the verse to mean those
two things are the same thing, as Susan sometimes asserts, and He is saying
the same thing twice.
"This is infallibility at the individual level.
In either case, it is not clear that Baha'u'llah is saying that Husayn is
infallible, which is what you said.
You: "In the same way, sovereignty is an attribute of God, and the
individual can choose sovereignty for himself:"
It is not that I doubt that we can, each of us, choose sovereignty or to
function "as though thou hast been born anew from thy mother's womb." I
just don't see the case that such helps understand infallibility in general
or, for that matter, any specific issue of Baha'i doctrine.
"That sovereignty is the spiritual ascendancy which He exerciseth.."
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 107)
You: "The same is true of infallibility: it takes different forms in the
individual, in institutions, in relationships and so on."
You seem to be saying that since sovereignty arises from God, so does
infallibility. It seems true that they both arise from God, but one
ascendency does not stem from the other. There is no reason to state
infallibility and sovereignty are any different from other attributes of
God, like love or justice, which can also be in us, institutions and
relationships.
You: "...that it says NOTHING about not being wrong: it is all about not
**doing** wrong."
An important point that can stand all the emphasis we can give.
",,,the example of infallibility is that Muhammad changed the place of
pilgrimage"
Which seems pretty straight-forward under the definition " Incapable of
error in expounding doctrine on faith or morals."
You: "...infallibility actually MEANS freedom from bondage and therefore
the freedom to change."
I don't see how your definition is better. Although I agree that
Baha'u'llah was free in those ways, and He commands us as well to be free
from material bondage and free to arise and act according to His commands.
You: "...in Bahai teachings infallibility entails change and freedom to
change, whereas in previous religions it is used as a buttress *against*
change. ( !! )"
I still don't see the tie of infallibility to that sort of freedom and
change. If I accepted the argument (which I haven't) it seems we could move
from here to say that it is possible to change the site of Pilgimmage,
elect a new Guardian, and start drinking alcohol because we are infallible
and free to change.
So I will stop here, although I enjoy your translations, your point is not
made to me. I will be here if you would like to try some more. And if we
get to this point again I will finish your post. If you are the Sen I think
you are I have read some of your other works and find that this one does not
measure up well to them.
Thanks for reading, and I hope you will respond and relieve my aprehensions
about what you are saying. Perhaps it is a simple misunderstanding between
us.
--Kent
"Sen" <sen.sonja@casema.nl> wrote in message
news:-bednXzrbsAjJBLanZ2dnUVZ_h-vnZ2d@giganews.com...
On Jan 17, 1:43 pm, "Kent Johnson" <k...@compx2.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In order for me to say
whether or not Baha'u'llah, or God, is "infallible" I will need a
verifiab~\
le
definition of infallible.
Here are three from thefreedictionary.com:
|
Wouldn't it be more sensible to look at what Baha'u'llah himself says
about the meaning of the word: it is significantly different to the
meaning in any dictionary I've seen.
Infallibility in the Bahai writings does not mean never being wrong.
Baha'u'llah for instance was wrong on some historical and scientific
matters. Bahai infallibility is in the first place an attribute of
God,
and as such is shared with the whole creation, and its meaning is
defined
as "free from sin" that is, not bound by sin, free to do otherwise.
Infallibility is a statement that sin does not reign -- except when we
allow it to. It is an attribute of empowerment, a statement of our
liberty
from what seems to us to bind us. At every breathe, we are free to
start
again with a fresh slate. That is why the new believer is assured by
Baha'u'llah:
Thou hast mentioned Husayn. We have attired his temple with the
robe
of forgiveness and adorned his head with the crown of pardon. ...
Say:
Be not despondent. After the revelation of this blessed verse it
is as
though thou hast been born anew from thy mother's womb. Say: Thou
art
free from sin and error. Truly God hath purged thee with the
living
waters of His utterance in His Most Great Prison.
(Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 76)
This is infallibility at the individual level.
In the same way, sovereignty is an attribute of God, and the
individual can choose sovereignty for himself:
"Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a
sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)
This is sovereignty at the individual level. Each of the attributes of
God takes different forms at different
levels. So the kings are called "the manifestations of affluence and
power
and the daysprings of sovereignty and glory" (Epistle to the Son of
the
Wolf, p. 30), and in the Aqdas are told: "Arise, and serve Him Who is
the
Desire of all nations, Who hath created you ... and
ordained you to be, for all time, the emblems of His sovereignty."
This is the manifestation of the attribute sovereignty at the
institutional level, and in the political sphere. At the
same time, the founders of religions exhibit a different kind of
sovereignty: "by sovereignty is meant the all- encompassing, all-
pervading
power which is inherently exercised by the Qá'im whether or not He
appear
to the world clothed in the majesty of earthly dominion. ... That
sovereignty is the spiritual ascendancy which He exerciseth.."
(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 107)
The same is true of infallibility: it takes different forms in the
individual, in institutions, in relationships and so on.
"Know thou that the term 'Infallibility' hath numerous meanings
and
divers stations. In one sense it is applicable to the One Whom God
hath made immune from error. Similarly it is applied to every soul
whom God hath guarded against sin, transgression, rebellion,
impiety,
disbelief and the like. However, the Most Great Infallibility is
confined to the One Whose station is immeasurably exalted beyond
ordinances or prohibitions and is sanctified from errors and
omissions." (Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 108).
I will puzzle out the details of this below, but we can note now that
it
includes "every soul" but not all in the same sense, and that it says
NOTHING about not being wrong: it is all about not **doing** wrong.
And we
can look to the next page and see that the example of the Most Great
Infallibility which Baha'u'llah gives is the designation of Mecca as
the
place of pilgrimage. Muhammad puts Mecca in place of Jerusalem. He
changed the Law of God. "Consider thou the blessed, the divinely-
revealed
verse in which pilgrimage to the House is enjoined upon everyone. It
devolved upon those invested with authority after Him to observe
whatever
had been prescribed unto them in the Book. Unto no one is given the
right
to deviate from the laws and ordinances of God...." (There's a
critiique
here of the Umayyid Caliphs in Damascus, who tried to make Jerusalem
at
least a rival place of pilgrimage). So the example of infallibility is
that Muhammad changed the place of pilgrimage, and all after him had
to
obey that change. Except we do not go to Mecca on pilgrimage, do we?
Baha'u'llah changed the Law again. Infallibility in Bahai teachings
obviously has something to do with change.
It is not just that infallibility means "being always right but only
within one dispensation" -- which would be nonsensical anyway. It is
stronger: infallibility actually MEANS freedom from bondage and
therefore
the freedom to change. In the case of the Manifestation, it means the
freedom not to be bound by the Law of God as it was up till then. In
the
case of House of Justice, it is bound by what is revealed in the Book,
but
it is free to change its own rulings. It can say, "sorry, that is
wrong"
or "that is no longer best" and head off in another direction. The UHJ
is
not bound by its own history, or by the need to appear consistent to
the
world. If is FREE, in a way that the Pope is not. He, like the Shaykh
al-Azhar and the Shi`ah Mujtahids, dare not be seen to change what the
authorities before them have laid down. They are prisoners of history,
and
of the expectations of the faithful.
I said I would puzzle out the passage from the Ishraqat about
infallibility in more detail. In Taherzadeh's translation of the
Ishraqat, Baha'u'llah explains that he has
delayed unveiling the doctrine because it will elicit opposition from
the
`ulamaa' and persecution for the faithful. Then he prefaces the actual
explanation with a restatement of the sovereignty of the
Manifestation,
and the threat this represents to existing religions:
... thou didst firmly adhere unto seemly patience during the days
when
the Pen was held back from movement and the Tongue hesitated to
set
forth an explanation regarding the wondrous sign [al-ayah al-
`azmii],
the Most Great Infallibility [`ismat al-kabrii]. Thou hast asked
this
Wronged One to remove for thee its veils and coverings ... We
restrained the Pen for a considerable lapse of time in accordance
with
divine wisdom [hikmat] and for the sake of protecting the faithful
.... The All-Merciful is come invested with power and sovereignty.
Through His power the foundations of religions have quaked ...
and
divers stations [ma`aan shattaa wa maqaamat shattaa =iverse
meanings
and diverse stations].
The reason why infallibility (in its Bahai meaning) causes the
foundations of religions to quake, is that in Bahai teachings
infallibility entails change and freedom to change, whereas in
previous religions it is used
as a buttress *against* change. ( !! ) The parallel construction in
the last sentence links the diversity in meaning to the different
stations or levels at which infallibility applies, as we have seen
above. Taherzadeh's translation continues
In one sense it [infallibility] is applicable to the One Whom God
hath
made immune from error.
"'In one sense" does not appear in the text, and the capitalisation of
One,
implying that this is the first station, the most great infallibility
of
the Manifestation, is an inference by the translator. In my view it is
incorrect: this sentence and the following one are talking about the
general use of the term, and its Arabic etymology. What it says
literally
is:
Where there is one whom God guards (`s.mahu) from slipping
(az-zalal), he (God) confers upon him this name (infallible) as a
station [fii maqaam].
Baha'u'llah is emphasising that the word `ismat comes from the verb
`sm, to guard or protect, and the concept 'infallible' means that God
has
protected someone from something - in the first case, from a slip.
Zalal
is a simpler term than khataa', it means a lapse, slip or mistake.
when we
are about to fall.
The text continues, in my translation:
Similarly where God has guarded anyone from sin (khataa' ),
rebellion
(`isyaan), impiety (`iraaz) disbelief (kufr), joining partners
with
God (shirk) and the like, God grants each and every one of them
the
name of 'infallibility.'
In short, where God guards anyone from anything, this guarding is
called 'ismat.
However, the Most Great Infallibility belongs to the One Whose
station is a holiness above ordinances and prohibitions and an
exemption from sin (khataa') and forgetfulness (nisyaan).] Indeed
He
is a Light which is not succeeded by darkness and a suitability
[s.awaab =ightness, fittingness, perhaps righteousness here?]
that
is not subject to sin/failing (khataa'). Were He to pronounce upon
water the decree of wine (i.e., that it is forbidden) or upon
heaven
the decree of earth, or upon light the decree of fire, it is the
truth
[haqq =ruth, reality, legal right] and there is no doubt about
it;
and it is not for anyone to object to it (or, against him) or to
say
'why and wherefore?.' If anyone objects, he is one of the
objectors in
the Book of God, the Lord of the worlds. Truly, he is "He shall
not be
asked of His doings, but they shall be questioned."
The Qur'an verse (21:23) refers to God, but the subject of this
paragraph is the Manifestation of God. The last sentence asserts that
the
Manifestation is in this respect like God: free to do as he (or she)
wills, without having to answer to others. This freedom includes
changing
laws, of which the extreme example would be to forbid the believers to
drink water. It includes changing the language and symbols of the
religions, in which, for instance, fire has been the symbol of
punishment
and disgrace, and light symbolises insight and purity. What is meant
by
pronouncing the decree of earth upon heaven? We imagine the physical
and
metaphorical heavens to be unchanging, while the earth (or the sub-
lunar
realm in medieval cosmology) is the realm of change, relativity and
conditionality. The Manifestation has the authority to introduce
change
into "heaven" -- into religion.
He is come from the invisible heaven (or: the heaven of
concealment), and with him the banner `He doeth whatsoever He
willeth' and the hosts of power and authority (ikhtiyaar, which is
authority in the sense of being able to *choose*) while it is the
duty
of all besides Him to hold fast to the religious laws (shari`ah)
and
ordinances (ahkaam) that have been enjoined upon them. Should
anyone
transgress them, even to the extent of a single hair, his work
will
miscarry.
The last sentence need not mean that one who ignores the religious
laws will not prosper in this world - the opposite is quite likely.
The worst sort of people generally rise to the top. It seems more
likely to mean that respect and obedience for the religious laws is a
condition for the acceptability of good works in the eyes of God, and
for
the success of the mystic's efforts. |
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mveejay@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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We had many firesides, discussions, deepenings in our community.
Independent Investigation of Truth: Mr. Furutan(Hands of the Cause)
have told many kids during his time of service at the World Center in
Haifa that whenever someone quotes the holy sayings, ask them what is
the Page #, and Book. Make sure you go and read it to make sure you
find the correct wording. As humans, we are prone to misquoting
facts, or having grammatical errors.
Growing up as a Hindu in India, there is a saying "What you see is a
lie, what you hear is a lie, What you investigate individually is the
truth."(That is a translation of an ancient Tamil Quote of couple of
thousand years).
Writing a short comment during a break from work(in a weekend). Will
write a detailed weekend, and amazed at a wonderful concise
compilation given by other friends. Glad to be a part here,
Warm Bahai regards,
Vijay |
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Douglas McAdam
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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Hi Sen-
This is one of those things that I have always questioned. I do not
see how we mortals, with our limited capacity, can judge whether
Baha'u'llah said or did something that was wrong. He Himself has told
us we cannot judge the Book of God with the standards amongst men.
We can say that based on our current knowledge and understanding of
something "it APPEARS that Baha'u'llah is in error in science or
history" but we cannot say for sure with authority. I myself simply
cannot understand how a Manifestation, who exists in a completely
separate realm than ours, can recreate Creation and endow it with a new
potential and make a mistake in doing so. All sciences come from God
and He would know them all I would think.
Is there a time when the Manifestation is not acting in that capacity?
I don't know, but if He is indeed a Manifestation of God He has no
control over what God wants to reveal through Him.
Later,
doug
On Jan 17, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Sen wrote:
| Quote: | Wouldn't it be more sensible to look at what Baha'u'llah himself says
about the meaning of the word: it is significantly different to the
meaning in any dictionary I've seen.
Infallibility in the Bahai writings does not mean never being wrong.
Baha'u'llah for instance was wrong on some historical and scientific
matters. Bahai infallibility is in the first place an attribute of
God,
and as such is shared with the whole creation, and its meaning is
defined
as "free from sin" that is, not bound by sin, free to do otherwise.
Infallibility is a statement that sin does not reign -- except when we
allow it to. It is an attribute of empowerment, a statement of our
liberty
from what seems to us to bind us. At every breathe, we are free to
start
again with a fresh slate. That is why the new believer is assured by
Baha'u'llah: |
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Richard Hainsworth
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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| Quote: | What is independent investigation of truth and reality?
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Regarding 'truth', I always refer to Baha'u'llah's assertion, which I
remember as follows (His words are more beautiful, so it is worth
looking them up):
There are many things that are true, but which cannot be put into
words.
There are things which are true, but the time is not be right to say
them.
There are things which are true, but the people who hear them do not
have the capacity to understand them.
For me, this means that Independent investigation is not a one-off
thing for one particular truth. Since we may not have had the capacity
once to understand a truth means that as we grow and acquire capacity,
we have to revisit subjects again.
On this question, I find the Hidden Word on 'justice' (The best
beloved of all things in My sight is Justice) to be full of meaning.
In practical terms, the process requires us to ask questions, to work
out what is the right question. We need to ask the same question from
many people. Often, finding the right question to ask is half-way to
finding the truth. Having asked a question and obtained a response, we
must consider what implications such a response would mean. Are the
implications reasonable within our view of the world. Sometimes I hear
elegant answers to questions, but the implications multiply into the
absurd.
Then it is for us to determine - for a particular time and situation -
what that truth may be.
| Quote: | What do the Writings say about this principle?
What I have found I have sketched. What others have found, can be seen |
in their responses. But what is important for you, is for you to find
answers. Relying on what others say is 'imitation'. Using what others
say as guidance is part of the search.
| Quote: | Do the Writings tell us how to conduct an independent investigation?
Yes. But the Writings rarely contains things in a 'cook book' fashion |
- "Do this and you get that". The Writings contain flowers and buds
and seeds, some of the beauty you see at once, sometimes you need to
wait until the beauty becomes apparent, and sometimes the meaning hits
you when you dont expect it and in a completely different situation.
| Quote: | What is truth?
Now that is a question philosophers have debated since the dawn of |
recorded history. But given Baha'u'llah's assertion about truth, it
would seem to me that we can never 'know' the whole truth. And an
acceptance of that requires humilty. We can come to an understanding
about what we believe to be true, why we believe it to be true, where
to look for answers to questions we develop about the word.
| Quote: | What is Reality?
Another venerable question discussed everywhere and by everyone who |
has a mind and a desire to know.
| Quote: | How do we really know that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God?
Seems to me that having an answer to this question is what |
distinguishes a Baha'i from a non-Baha'i. And it is possible that
every single Baha'i has a different answer. And because not all truths
can be expressed in words, it may not be possible for many Baha'is to
explain in words their answer, or for all those who listen to be able
to understand what they are trying to say.
Since this question lies at the root of belief and acceptance of the
Baha'i Faith, I sincerely believe that there can be no "magic answer",
no formula that when repeated will generate in the heart and mind of a
listener acceptance of Baha'i Faith.
This question leads to others, such as 'why is belief necessary for
human beings?', 'is belief the same as knowledge?'
But here is my answer, since I have no desire for anyone to think that
I have been trying to avoid the issue. All I want is for any reader
that gets this far to know that it is a singularly personal statement.
I KNOW Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God because for every
question I ask, I find an answer in the Writings of the Baha'i Faith;
when I read the Writings of the Baha'i Faith in times of stress and
uncertainty, those feelings ameliorate and certainty is re-
established; the understanding I gain about the world and the way it
operates after reflecting on what I read in the Baha'i Writings is
deeper and more significant than anything I find elsewhere; the effect
the Baha'i Writings have on so many diverse people is similar to the
effect it has on me. No other explanation about what I perceive to be
true satisfies my mind or my heart, other than that Baha'u'llah is a
Manifestation of God.
The remaining questions are secondary or derivative, for in responding
to them we have to share an understanding about our answers to the
ones above.
| Quote: | How do we know He is infallible?
How do we really know the Writings are truth?
How do we really know that there was a Jesus, a Muhammad, etc.?
Should be an interesting discussion I would think.
regards,
doug |
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Troppo
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Independent investigation |
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Richard Hainsworth <richard@hainsworth.ru> wrote in
news:luqdnRK2rrOT1j7anZ2dnUVZ_oytnZ2d@giganews.com:
| Quote: | What is independent investigation of truth and reality?
|
Thanks Richard - imho these are excellent comments on IIT and relevant to
the currently parallel discussion on "reality can be known?". I'm not
quoting all of your comments, but have saved them for future reference:
| Quote: | Regarding 'truth', I always refer to Baha'u'llah's assertion
[..]
For me, this means that Independent investigation is not a one-off
thing for one particular truth.
|
It's a transcendent (cosmic) principle - not an immanent principle.
If this were no so, maybe we would still be living in caves etc, and those
who understand that the cosmos does not revolve around the earth would
still need to keep their heads down ...
| Quote: | [...]
How is it done?
What do the Writings say about this principle?
[...]
Do the Writings tell us how to conduct an independent investigation?
Yes. But the Writings rarely contains things in a 'cook book' fashion
|
"We are told" that the Age of the Prophets (the Cycle of Prophesy) is over
and we have entered the Cycle of Fulfillment. So we can no longer expect
"Do this and you get that".
| Quote: | The Writings contain flowers and buds and seeds,
|
Instruction on how to go about finding the answers - not necessarily the
answers. That's maturity.
Baha'u'llah states somewhere that the Age of Fulfillment lasts 500,000
years. I don't believe that's what you could call a "throw-away line" -
Baha'u'llah doesn't go in for those. A very long period of time - or is it?
And isn't it also a hint that maybe we aren't going to wipe ourselves out,
or be wiped out, as some doomsayers would have us believe?
| Quote: | What is truth?
What is Reality?
|
Questions that are manifestly a characteristic of human beings alone.
(Well - almost unique. It is evident to me that the family dog has an
enquiring mind - but then her species has been hanging around with human
being for many millennia, so maybe some of this has "rubbed off" ?)
| Quote: | How do we really know that there was a Jesus, a Muhammad, etc.?
|
The bottom line has to be cause and effect. Humble beginning leads to sub-
global recognition, application, advancement, progress. But the waters
eventually run wide, deep and muddy. Imitation sets in.
| Quote: | How do we really know that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God?
I KNOW Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God because for every
question I ask, I find an answer in the Writings of the Baha'i Faith;
when I read the Writings of the Baha'i Faith in times of stress and
uncertainty, those feelings ameliorate and certainty is re-
established; the understanding I gain about the world and the way it
operates after reflecting on what I read in the Baha'i Writings is
deeper and more significant than anything I find elsewhere; the effect
the Baha'i Writings have on so many diverse people is similar to the
effect it has on me. No other explanation about what I perceive to be
true satisfies my mind or my heart, other than that Baha'u'llah is a
Manifestation of God.
|
Nothing to add to that :-)
| Quote: | The remaining questions are secondary or derivative, for in responding
to them we have to share an understanding about our answers to the
ones above.
How do we know He is infallible?
|
As per the pargraph above. ("I KNOW Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation of God
....) - plus - I know I'm fallible.
| Quote: | How do we really know the Writings are truth?
|
Ditto
Regards
Martin Clark |
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