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Dave Ifeanyi Othniel
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 Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:16 am Post subject: Is God omni-potent? |
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Dear brethren,
is the good Lord omni-potent?
If God is omni-potent (=all powerful), can He then create a stone which is
so heavy that He Himself cannot lift it up?
If we answer yes, He can, then we must ask ourselves why after creating this
stone, since He is almighty, He cannot lift it up.
If we answer no, then have we've proven to ourselves that God is not
almighty?
What is your answer?
in Christ victorious
-Dave |
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Lamarr Edwards
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:16 am Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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Dave - Your posed riddle is amusing.
However, you and I reasoning over the mechanics of it is like two ants
attempting to understand a cell phone, genetics, space travel, or how
the shoe that crushes us was made.
Can God make a rock that he cannot lift ? Yes
Then, he can lift it, if he desires.
That, is the answer. LE |
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Rob
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:16:12 +0200, Dave Ifeanyi Othniel <augsbrg@yahoo.de>
wrote:
| Quote: | Dear brethren,
is the good Lord omni-potent?
If God is omni-potent (=all powerful), can He then create a stone which is
so heavy that He Himself cannot lift it up?
If we answer yes, He can, then we must ask ourselves why after creating this
stone, since He is almighty, He cannot lift it up.
If we answer no, then have we've proven to ourselves that God is not
almighty?
What is your answer?
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2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do
gender strifes. (KJV)
Rob |
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Lamarr Edwards
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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Dave - If God wanted to create a stone he could NEVER lift, he could,
if he wanted to create one that he couldn't lift for just a nanosecond,
then he could lift, he could.
Gods power is guided by Gods will, and what he wills, he can do.
As a young man, I had an interest in entomology, specifically,
myrmecology ( the study of ants).
I assure you, ants have no knowledge, of, or need to know, about cell
phones. LE |
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Dave Othniel
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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Dear Rob,
quoting the Bible in cases where we do not have answers, is a sin,
because it also written:
Be ready always to give an answer to every man who asks you a reason of
the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. (1. Peter 3:15)
Evidently you are not ready to give an answer. Therefore you must ask
yourself why you're not ready.
Please offer your answer to my question about the omni-potency of the
God, creator of all things.
Gottes Segen für Dich!
-Dave
Rob schrieb:
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:16:12 +0200, Dave Ifeanyi Othniel <augsbrg@yahoo.de
wrote:
Dear brethren,
is the good Lord omni-potent?
If God is omni-potent (=all powerful), can He then create a stone which is
so heavy that He Himself cannot lift it up?
If we answer yes, He can, then we must ask ourselves why after creating this
stone, since He is almighty, He cannot lift it up.
If we answer no, then have we've proven to ourselves that God is not
almighty?
What is your answer?
2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do
gender strifes. (KJV)
Rob |
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Dave Othniel
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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Dear Lamarr Edwards,,
you have belittled the ants which are mighty, hard-working creations of
God. How do we know anything about their consciuosness and the world
they live in? We don't, because we are not ants.
Maybe ants do know something about cell phones, space travel etc.
Anyway, this is just by the way.
So God can create this stone, yes? The very moment He lifts it, then
that means that the stone He just lifted wasn't the one He was suppossed
to create in the first place, namely a stone which is so heavy that God
Himself cannot lift.
So what's the answer?
-Dave
Lamarr Edwards schrieb:
| Quote: | Dave - Your posed riddle is amusing.
However, you and I reasoning over the mechanics of it is like two ants
attempting to understand a cell phone, genetics, space travel, or how
the shoe that crushes us was made.
Can God make a rock that he cannot lift ? Yes
Then, he can lift it, if he desires.
That, is the answer. LE
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Alan M
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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"Dave Ifeanyi Othniel" <augsbrg@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:3F3E910C.6040800@yahoo.de...
| Quote: | Dear brethren,
is the good Lord omni-potent?
If God is omni-potent (=all powerful), can He then create a stone which is
so heavy that He Himself cannot lift it up?
If we answer yes, He can, then we must ask ourselves why after creating
this
stone, since He is almighty, He cannot lift it up.
If we answer no, then have we've proven to ourselves that God is not
almighty?
What is your answer?
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The question is invalid. It already presumes that God is not omni-potent by
containing a premise that there is something He cannot do. This is a
circular argument. To change shapes, you could equally say that if God is
omni-potent, He could create a triangle so big that it had four sides. Rob
can probably throw in an example on dice. |
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Lamarr Edwards
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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| Alan - Good point ! Roll those funny triangular bones. LE |
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EW
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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"Dave Ifeanyi Othniel" <augsbrg@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:3F3E910C.6040800@yahoo.de...
| Quote: | Dear brethren,
is the good Lord omni-potent?
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Simply, God can't perform actions that cannot happen in any realm. He can't
make a perfect circle with firm straight lines. He can't commit a sin. He
can't divide a number by two until the answer is absolutely zero. He cannot
create another God like himself (that would mean the other has a beginning).
He can't make a rock so heavy that he can't lift because he IS all powerful!
The logic is there, if you look deep enough. Remember, when you say "God
can't...." you are using limited human words and inferior human conceptions.
If you persist beyond this, you'll show ignorance.
EW |
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Dave Othniel
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:08 am Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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Dear EW,
a question is never a definite statement. So when I write "He cannot.."
it is to be regarded as a question and not a statement.
You write: "He can't make a rock so heavy that he can't lift because he
IS all powerful!"
That's a clear and bold statement which denies the omni-potency of God.
You also write "The logic is there, if you look deep enough."
Please then, help me look deep enough by shedding some more light on
this issue, because I cannot, as of now see, the logic in your answer.
Thanks and God bless you.
-Dave
EW schrieb:
| Quote: | "Dave Ifeanyi Othniel" <augsbrg@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:3F3E910C.6040800@yahoo.de...
Dear brethren,
is the good Lord omni-potent?
Simply, God can't perform actions that cannot happen in any realm. He can't
make a perfect circle with firm straight lines. He can't commit a sin. He
can't divide a number by two until the answer is absolutely zero. He cannot
create another God like himself (that would mean the other has a beginning).
He can't make a rock so heavy that he can't lift because he IS all powerful!
The logic is there, if you look deep enough. Remember, when you say "God
can't...." you are using limited human words and inferior human conceptions.
If you persist beyond this, you'll show ignorance.
EW
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Dave Othniel
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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Dear EW,
thank you for your reply. At least I'm now seeing more sides/views to
this old question.
Still, more light is needed.
You write: "God could simply abate gravity temporarily and
therefore he could NOT make a stone heavy enough that he could not lift
because he would take the "heavy" out of the equation"
Please, the condition of this question is that at all times, in every
situation the stone MUST fullfill the condition of being too heavy for
God to lift up.
The very moment your scenario takes place, the condition/requirement of
the stone is not met, and therfore the end-result (=God lifting up the
stone) is not valid.
It is only then when the stone, which is too heavy for God to lift up,
has been created, we can now begin to look at the omni-potency of God.
About the other "God cannot..." statements: they are actually
irrelevant, because this question only looks at ONE situation.
Can I have your answer?
God bless you!
-Dave
EW schrieb:
| Quote: | "Dave Othniel" <augsbrg@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:3F3FFCC5.6040904@yahoo.de...
Dear EW,
You also write "The logic is there, if you look deep enough."
Please then, help me look deep enough by shedding some more light on
this issue, because I cannot, as of now see, the logic in your answer.
This could be fun!
Don't forget about the other "God cannot....." statements I made (divide by
two, etc..) and see the flaw in your thinking. Regarding the stone: one of
several solutions is that an all powerful entity has control of mitigating
factors, like gravity. God could simply abate gravity temporarily and
therefore he could NOT make a stone heavy enough that he could not lift
because he would take the "heavy" out of the equation. That would absolve
him of further expectations. Therefore, he could get around your argument
by changing the rules. And the very nature of existence is that you cannot
have AND not-have gravity at one time in the same place. This is the
central point you must understand (like dividing by two until you get zero).
Then you may say: let's put gravity into the equation. Wrong, because he
may choose not to because he can. He wins with the first scenario because
he's playing by the rules.  )
EW
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Chain Breaker
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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| Quote: | Dave - Your posed riddle is amusing.
However, you and I reasoning over the mechanics of it is like two ants
attempting to understand a cell phone, genetics, space travel, or how
the shoe that crushes us was made.
Can God make a rock that he cannot lift ? Yes
Then, he can lift it, if he desires.
That, is the answer. LE
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And while your God was making a rock that he could not lift, but then
he could, a few thousand more people died of aids or starvation. (CB) |
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Lamarr Edwards
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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EW - Good point, even for a Texan !
However, it seems though your hypothesis is based upon "the rules",
being binding upon God.
The question simply says, "could he" with no stipulation that his action
be taken in any form that we can relate to, the known laws of physics,,
or geometry, or whatever.
So then, he could create a square triangle, or a blue car that is green.
Being finite creatures, bound in our three dimensional world, that is
governed by the laws of physics, we cannot grasp these apparent
condradictions.
Physics has shown that sometimes two ir - reconciable things can be true
at the same, What if, in a reality that God chooses to make, a million
seemingly opposing things, can be true at the same time ?
As I read te Bible, it appears a though there are only two things that
God cannot do, lie, and die, the latter being why I reject the trinity,
but that is a whole other can of worms.
Hw about those Arizona little leaguers beating the Texas team in the
playoffs for going to the LL world series ? E |
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Lamarr Edwards
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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CB - You are struggling with the thought that an omnipotent God, if he
exists , allows hidous things to occur, which makes the concept of a
loving God seem laughable.
I understand your viewpoint very well, as a rabid agnostic I made very
same observation hundreds of times.
Pehaps we could discuss it. LE |
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Andrew
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Is God omni-potent? |
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"Chain Breaker" wrote:
| Quote: |
And while your God was making a rock that he could not lift, but then
he could, a few thousand more people died of aids or starvation. (CB)
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Our God is doing no such thing .. but He will ask you and ALL of
us what we have done for the needy and the suffering of humanity.
**
"When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 'Or when did
we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "And the King will answer and say to them,
'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you
did it to Me.' "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed,
into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 'for I was hungry and you gave
Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 'I was a stranger and you did not take Me
in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' "Then they
also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or
naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' "Then He will answer them, saying,
'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not
do it to Me.' "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into
eternal life."
Matthew 25:38-46 |
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