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Néo
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 Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Doug Freyburger a écrit :
| Quote: | Néo <ze_...@rocketship.com> wrote:
I think I remember reading on alt.religion.asatru that
there once was, in Iceland, a group of male practicioners
of seidhr, who were eventually all killed because the king
had decided that he did not like the idea.
The large temple at Uppsalla was in Sweden. I don't know
that they were all wiped out at once, but the tmeple was
destroyed during the conversion era.
|
If I remember well, it happened either before the conversion
area, or at the beginning of it, and the story was put forth
firstly as an extreme example of intolerance, in old times,
towards the male practitioners of seidhr.
| Quote: | Bias against working with spirits is part of the JCI tradition.
|
It is!
They have shot themselves a bullet in the foot by doing so,
but it's another story.
--
Néo |
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Crowlie
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Doug Freyburger wrote:
| Quote: | Néo <n...@adresski.ru> wrote:
Doug Freyburger a écrit :
Néo <n...@adresski.ru> wrote:
I have had quite a few glimpses from Odin ...
I've had one dramatic one. He showed up and told me to
follow. No details, no explanation. After considerable
pondering I decided most of the ancients followed the
pantheon as a whole not one specific patron so that's
what I've done in Asatru. The Wanderer is quite welcome
to show up any time and give more details ...
OK... so if I got you well, you sort of followed his demand,
but in the way you felt was the safest, and he seemed to be
happy with it.
In the most traditional way. I'm not sure how safety factors
into it as the safest path would have been to decide the
experience had been made up. It's easy to get the order to
follow and to follow the one giving the order. I know several
Asatruar who have done exactly that and they are happy with
their decisions. I wanted to do my homework more than that
and try to figure out what was meant as best I could. I took
best to mean most in line with what ancient traditions I could
find.
|
Oddly enough, what I'm reading suggests that anyone with any experience
would question the details involved with Odin... ;-)
| Quote: | To my knowledge, they are also perfectly able to become
incarnate here on Earth, if need be, and it could happen
rather more often than one may think. Among the ones
known in the Norse pantheon, so far, I could identify a
few who are most probably presently incarnated here on
Earth.
There are plenty of legends of spirits taking on human bodies.
I don't know how much those legends are based on wishful
thinking. My own example appears to be wishful thinking -
One time I was on a bus riding home from work and another
passenger said his name was Thor. He chatted with me and
others in English with a slight accent I couldn't place. He
chatted with the Spanish speaking folks also with an accent
I couldn't place. He chatted with the Armenian speaking
folks but I don't know that tongue well enough to know accents.
In all three languages he was able to tell jokes easily and that
says he was extremely fluent in all three languages. At one
point he exitted the bus and vanished into the crowd. Was
he just a normal human who happened to have a name I held
important? Almost cetainly but it's one of those experiences
that makes me go HMMM. I can see how retelling it across
generations might turn into a diety expressing as a human.
|
That's incredible. Did you remember anything of what he was saying? LOL
I'd be analysing that for months.
| Quote: | Being possessed by a divine spirit is a true spiritual
experience and happens within a shamanic framework, but
it's (by far) not the only type of interaction observed.
I agree with your point here, I only want to avoid
restricting our present framework.
Dealing with spirits is not the only form of trancework either.
I managed to get upper division college credit doing Hindu
meditation (very nice course) and very little of it involved
contact with spirits.
|
And this one is the reason for the reply. I've been pursuing
Hindu/Buddhist forms of meditation for some years. Recently I bought
another book on the subject, which claims a very old inheritance of
Vedic teachings regarding spiritual development. It was the author's
opinion/understanding that development of psychic skills, contact with
spirits or visions were actually a sign of undeveloped spirituality and
not to be cultivated. He stated quite clearly that they should be left
behind and losing such abilities was a better sign of developing
spirituality.
Now I was quite surprised to read that. It's the only place I've ever
heard anything like that suggested. Every other spiritual tradition I've
encountered, even xianity though it does it half arsed about with
prophecies and possessions, considers contact with information from
spiritual sources to be a powerful thing. I've never heard it taught
that one should deny or reject contact from spiritual teachers...
Perhaps measure them to make sure you're not being lead on by anything
capricious perhaps, but certainly not to need to reject visions or
anything as being a sign of going backwards.
The other question was where did you do the course? LOL I'm wanting to
finish a degree maybe moving into Psych and a unit or two in meditation
and visualisation would be perfect for an energy manipulator such as myself.
| Quote: | As some (at least Greek for instance) IE legends clearly
show, from time to time, some Deities clearly express a
wish for sensual interaction with presently incarnated
human beings, including homosexual relationships. I have
heard about several such situations in which things did
happen astrally. One important thing here is that these
experiences possess many initiatory aspects. I could even
say that I was surprised when I realized to which extent
the archaic Greek myths that reached us described things
that actually do happen.
That's a new perspective for me to ponder on. Thanks.
|
In dream interpretation this was always considered symbolic of
acceptance or transmission of strengths, ideas etc. If you're
interpreting lore as symbolic, does that collaborate?
| Quote: | Well, another specific aspect of a shaman's work is about
shapeshifting. I'm not trying to oppose POVs here, only to
suggest there are many levels of understanding, all equally
valid, and each applying to a specific range of situations.
Shape shifting can be symbolic in many ways including
gender. The relationship between spirit totem animals and
werewolf/bear-shirt traditions was a topic of interest for me
for several years. What parts meaning what, how many
layers of meaning ...
|
That's another one to "take to the cushion" as they say.
Wassail, Lis |
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Néo
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Doug Freyburger a écrit :
| Quote: | Néo <n...@adresski.ru> wrote:
Doug Freyburger a écrit :
Néo <n...@adresski.ru> wrote:
I have had quite a few glimpses from Odin ...
I've had one dramatic one. He showed up and told me to
follow. No details, no explanation. After considerable
pondering I decided most of the ancients followed the
pantheon as a whole not one specific patron so that's
what I've done in Asatru. The Wanderer is quite welcome
to show up any time and give more details ...
OK... so if I got you well, you sort of followed his demand,
but in the way you felt was the safest, and he seemed to be
happy with it.
In the most traditional way. I'm not sure how safety factors
into it as the safest path would have been to decide the
experience had been made up. It's easy to get the order to
follow and to follow the one giving the order. I know several
Asatruar who have done exactly that and they are happy with
their decisions. I wanted to do my homework more than that
and try to figure out what was meant as best I could. I took
best to mean most in line with what ancient traditions I could
find.
|
This is how I had understood it. Thanks for explaining
more in detail.
| Quote: | To my knowledge, they are also perfectly able to become
incarnate here on Earth, if need be, and it could happen
rather more often than one may think. Among the ones
known in the Norse pantheon, so far, I could identify a
few who are most probably presently incarnated here on
Earth.
There are plenty of legends of spirits taking on human bodies.
I don't know how much those legends are based on wishful
thinking. My own example appears to be wishful thinking -
One time I was on a bus riding home from work and another
passenger said his name was Thor. He chatted with me and
others in English with a slight accent I couldn't place. He
chatted with the Spanish speaking folks also with an accent
I couldn't place. He chatted with the Armenian speaking
folks but I don't know that tongue well enough to know accents.
In all three languages he was able to tell jokes easily and that
says he was extremely fluent in all three languages. At one
point he exitted the bus and vanished into the crowd. Was
he just a normal human who happened to have a name I held
important? Almost cetainly but it's one of those experiences
that makes me go HMMM. I can see how retelling it across
generations might turn into a diety expressing as a human.
|
Sure. Interesting story.
One could try to assess such experiences in terms of odds.
Or if it smells like something, sounds like it, looks like
it, etc. one would decide that it probably is real.
As a purely empirical rule, it seems that spiritual guides
interacting this way do it precisely to an extent one will
but wonder endlessly how to consider it, wishful thinking
versus crazy but actual experience. Like if they wanted to
avoid forcing any given interpretation. Another clue for
genuine interactions is humour... obviously well present
in your account.
Once one is accustomed to seeing in the astral plane, it
can become a sort of second nature, one integrates images
coming from this plane within one's daily life. Like for
instance a couple of minutes ago, the son of my spiritual
spouse was apparently sitting on my knees. The way it all
was brought (little details) would make me consider it was
a genuine experience, not wishful thinking. One should
remain careful with all such things, taking them easy.
Whatever... he's a cute little boy. Two other persons saw
him astrally, the details were fully corroborating, so in
his case, I'd tend to see the whole story as true even if
a big chunk of it obviously remains a mystery to me, and
it most probably will remain so for some time.
| Quote: | Being possessed by a divine spirit is a true spiritual
experience and happens within a shamanic framework, but
it's (by far) not the only type of interaction observed.
I agree with your point here, I only want to avoid
restricting our present framework.
Dealing with spirits is not the only form of trancework either.
I managed to get upper division college credit doing Hindu
meditation (very nice course) and very little of it involved
contact with spirits.
|
I never studied this topic. Thibetan Buddhism seems to
include quite some stuff, probably from an existing
shamanic background.
| Quote: | As some (at least Greek for instance) IE legends clearly
show, from time to time, some Deities clearly express a
wish for sensual interaction with presently incarnated
human beings, including homosexual relationships. I have
heard about several such situations in which things did
happen astrally. One important thing here is that these
experiences possess many initiatory aspects. I could even
say that I was surprised when I realized to which extent
the archaic Greek myths that reached us described things
that actually do happen.
That's a new perspective for me to ponder on. Thanks.
|
Some of what I could see or experience (or was told) could
be a bit hard to express in a straightforward way, but the
path of some followers includes such "trials". For instance,
I ended up seeing the Ancient Greek custom of male homosexual
initiation to adulthood as directly linked to (SOME of) the
World Above's values and teachings, or at least to a tantric
type path associated to it (which does not mean that as it
was practiced in some parts of Ancient Greece, it was immune
to issues like misunderstandings, distortion, corruption,
etc.)
One of the benefits of such taboo-breaking seems to be the
breaking up of human level values in order to make room for
new stuff, like questions about one's identity, perception
of the inner self, etc. The method may seem abrupt, it will
be seen as totally shameful by moralistic people from all
shades, yet it has its relevance and usefulness. Of course,
it may not suit everybody. I'll put it this way: prejudices
are one of the single biggest obstacles to spiritual progress
so it makes sense (at least as seen from Up Above) to tear
them down into tiny little bits.
Part of those trial steps could also be seen as stages of
deconstruction preparing the way to a conscious perception
of a given spirit's dual gender nature. That said, on some
of this, I'm wary to draw conclusions from a too small
number of cases.
| Quote: | Well, another specific aspect of a shaman's work is about
shapeshifting. I'm not trying to oppose POVs here, only to
suggest there are many levels of understanding, all equally
valid, and each applying to a specific range of situations.
Shape shifting can be symbolic in many ways including
gender. The relationship between spirit totem animals and
werewolf/bear-shirt traditions was a topic of interest for me
for several years. What parts meaning what, how many
layers of meaning ...
|
For people who can see on the astral plane (something that
I learned along the way), shape shifting has a meaning on
this specific level of reality. It can be quite impressive,
as anybody can guess. Shifting into a dragon was among the
first exercises I was taught to practice by my first guide,
but I have not tried it since ages.
Apart from sight, one can similarly develop equivalents to
the senses of hearing, touch and smell.
--
Néo |
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Crowlie
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Néo wrote:
| Quote: | Crowlie a écrit :
Néo wrote:
Néo a écrit :
Crowlie a écrit :
Hi all,
Reading through some of the links I've been very kindly given. I
must say I'm impressed with the Saxon/Norse pantheon. What is it
with all these cross-dressing gods???? Just quietly it's a bit of a
turn on LOL
Maybe not the best reason to convert....
Lis
Hi,
I'm also interested in the IE pantheons, something
which I gradually felt the need to do after having
started a neo-shamanic path and having had a few
glimpses of the World Above. Up to now, I mostly
studied the Ancient Greek one, and more recently,
I have been paying more and more attention to the
Norse one - as time permits.
It's not the first time I'm hearing something about
cross-dressing, but I failed to identify that to some
specific Norse deities. Could you be more specific?
Thanks in advance!
|
Just found another one, http://www.hrafnar.org/norse/odin-and-women.html
The only issue I have with Paxson's stuff so far is that she doesn't
seem to consider the late origin of the Lokasenna and it's christianised
influence.
Cheese, Lis |
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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Crowlie wrote:
| Quote: |
In the most traditional way. I'm not sure how safety factors
into it as the safest path would have been to decide the
experience had been made up. It's easy to get the order to
follow and to follow the one giving the order. I know several
Asatruar who have done exactly that and they are happy with
their decisions. I wanted to do my homework more than that
and try to figure out what was meant as best I could. I took
best to mean most in line with what ancient traditions I could
find.
Oddly enough, what I'm reading suggests that anyone with any experience
would question the details involved with Odin... 
|
Odin has many faces.
| Quote: | There are plenty of legends of spirits taking on human bodies.
I don't know how much those legends are based on wishful
thinking. My own example appears to be wishful thinking -
One time I was on a bus riding home from work and another
passenger said his name was Thor. He chatted with me and
others in English with a slight accent I couldn't place. He
chatted with the Spanish speaking folks also with an accent
I couldn't place. He chatted with the Armenian speaking
folks but I don't know that tongue well enough to know accents.
In all three languages he was able to tell jokes easily and that
says he was extremely fluent in all three languages. At one
point he exitted the bus and vanished into the crowd. Was
he just a normal human who happened to have a name I held
important? Almost cetainly but it's one of those experiences
that makes me go HMMM. I can see how retelling it across
generations might turn into a diety expressing as a human.
That's incredible. Did you remember anything of what he was saying? LOL
I'd be analysing that for months.
|
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=1825
| Quote: | Dealing with spirits is not the only form of trancework either.
I managed to get upper division college credit doing Hindu
meditation (very nice course) and very little of it involved
contact with spirits.
And this one is the reason for the reply. I've been pursuing
Hindu/Buddhist forms of meditation for some years. Recently I bought
another book on the subject, which claims a very old inheritance of
Vedic teachings regarding spiritual development. It was the author's
opinion/understanding that development of psychic skills, contact with
spirits or visions were actually a sign of undeveloped spirituality and
not to be cultivated. He stated quite clearly that they should be left
behind and losing such abilities was a better sign of developing
spirituality.
|
It's a common view in Buddhism/Zen.
| Quote: | Now I was quite surprised to read that. It's the only place I've ever
heard anything like that suggested. Every other spiritual tradition I've
encountered, even xianity though it does it half arsed about with
prophecies and possessions, considers contact with information from
spiritual sources to be a powerful thing. I've never heard it taught
that one should deny or reject contact from spiritual teachers...
Perhaps measure them to make sure you're not being lead on by anything
capricious perhaps, but certainly not to need to reject visions or
anything as being a sign of going backwards.
|
Don't be distracted from the main job by playing with the toys.
FFF
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff |
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Doug Freyburger
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Crowlie <tju...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Just found another one
http://www.hrafnar.org/norse/odin-and-women.html
The only issue I have with Paxson's stuff so far is that she doesn't
seem to consider the late origin of the Lokasenna and it's christianised
influence.
|
The Lokasenna has brief and deeply symbolic summaries
of very many ancient tales. It's surface appearance of a
Christian addition appears to me as just that - A surface
or disguise.
As a result I don't think she misses the idea of Christian
influences but that she brushes past the curtain to get to
the real material in the tale. |
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Doug Freyburger
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Crowlie <tju...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Doug Freyburger wrote:
Oddly enough, what I'm reading suggests that anyone with any experience
would question the details involved with Odin...
|
All I got was - follow. Not enough details for that approach.
| Quote: | There are plenty of legends of spirits taking on human bodies.
I don't know how much those legends are based on wishful
thinking. My own example appears to be wishful thinking -
One time I was on a bus riding home from work and another
passenger said his name was Thor. He chatted with me and
others in English with a slight accent I couldn't place. He
chatted with the Spanish speaking folks also with an accent
I couldn't place. He chatted with the Armenian speaking
folks but I don't know that tongue well enough to know accents.
In all three languages he was able to tell jokes easily and that
says he was extremely fluent in all three languages. At one
point he exitted the bus and vanished into the crowd. Was
he just a normal human who happened to have a name I held
important? Almost cetainly but it's one of those experiences
that makes me go HMMM. I can see how retelling it across
generations might turn into a diety expressing as a human.
That's incredible.
|
As Neo pointed out in another post, the value of such experiences
is in how ambiguous they are to us. Are there humans whose
name is Thor? Definitely. Therefore if I choose to brush off the
event as mundane I can. What meaning it holds is completely
subjective as it applies to me alone. None of the other passengers
on the bus that day thought anything out of the ordinary other than
the low chance of someone being so fluent in the three most
common local languages that he could crack jokes in all of them.
It's uncommon enough for anyone to know English and Armenian
or English and Spanish to understand jokes in either, but to be
able to make them up on the fly is not common. Make it three
languages and it's quite remarkable. I've been able to understand
and laugh at jokes in German and Spanish but I've never been
able to express a joke in German or Spanish, never fluent enough.
| Quote: | Did you remember anything of what he was saying? LOL
I'd be analysing that for months.
|
Chatting and joking about day to day mundane issues. Cracking
jokes about the names of businesses the bus passed. What I
analyze is my own reaction of why the event effected me more
than the others on the bus. The ambigiuty of it is fascinating -
The other passengers thinking nothing was out of the ordinary
while I laughed at the English jokes, struggled to understand the
Spanish vocabulary to get the jokes,watched the faces of the
Armenian speakers to try to figure out what the jokes might be
about.
| Quote: | Dealing with spirits is not the only form of trancework either.
I managed to get upper division college credit doing Hindu
meditation (very nice course) and very little of it involved
contact with spirits.
And this one is the reason for the reply. I've been pursuing
Hindu/Buddhist forms of meditation for some years.
|
I managed to get in two for-credit college courses in Hindu for
my Bachelors degree. Plus not for credit independent reading
and practice for Buddhism.
| Quote: | Recently I bought
another book on the subject, which claims a very old inheritance of
Vedic teachings regarding spiritual development. It was the author's
opinion/understanding that development of psychic skills, contact with
spirits or visions were actually a sign of undeveloped spirituality and
not to be cultivated. He stated quite clearly that they should be left
behind and losing such abilities was a better sign of developing
spirituality.
|
This is one of the reasons neither Hindu nor Buddhism could
hold my interest. I would rather meditate on gazing across
Bifrost and looking for Heimdal than have a Samadi experience.
To me with my physics background and polytheist field of
interest, I see a Samadi experience like the photoelectric
effect - Apply not merely more effort at your meditation but more
energetic effort and more intense focus at your meditation. In a
few months, bingo a small Samadi experience. Make this a
lifelong goal and end up a saint of boddisatvah or whatever. Nice
but just not consistant with my own religious goals and interests.
I appreciate that contact with spirits interferes with having more
and longer lasting Samadi experiences and I appreciate that it
can be a goal to have more and longer lasting Samadi experiences.
That's one of the optional goals in Hindu and apparently the main
goal in Buddhism. The reason I would not make a good Hindu or
Buddhist is when I started down that path I found I had more
interest in the Aesir than in Samadi so I shifted the intensity and
energy of my meditation/trancework. The reason I would not
make a Shaman is my interest in the Aesir as spirits is too
specific. Seidhr trancework is a part of the Asatru palate but not
a central part of it to many.
| Quote: | Now I was quite surprised to read that. It's the only place I've ever
heard anything like that suggested.
|
It seems a matter of fact expression of the standard Buddhist
goal according to my limited studies. It's a goal I don't hold
but not a goal I find surprising.
| Quote: | The other question was where did you do the course? LOL I'm wanting to
finish a degree maybe moving into Psych and a unit or two in meditation
and visualisation would be perfect for an energy manipulator such as myself.
|
California State University at Los Angeles, early 1990s. I got
an evaluation of my transcripts at a transfer university against
all degree programs offered and I was about 8 courses away
from a BS in Computer Science but only 1 upper division
humanities quarter hour away from a BS in Liberal Studies
listing two minors (I listed Math and CS) instead of one major.
The professor who'd taught my previous History/Philosophy
dual department course offered a senior course in Meditation
through the Philosophy department. One course to a degree
beat 8 courses to a degree so there I was. I'd need to go
through my transcripts but I think that course also pushed me
over as being able to list Philosophy as a minor but as the
degree listed two I didn't need to list a third.
| Quote: | In dream interpretation this was always considered symbolic of
acceptance or transmission of strengths, ideas etc. If you're
interpreting lore as symbolic, does that collaborate?
|
Exactly. I view many mythical experiences as dreams
whether sleeping nighttime dreams or visions that might
mundanely be described as waking dreams. As such
applying dream interpretation methods to lore is a natural
approach. It certainly works better than trying to view tales
as news reports of actual events. |
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Tigger
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Maximize the Racial Divide |
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On Nov 4, 6:54 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:35:27 -0700, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:00:02 GMT, jazzerci...@hotmail.com (-) wrote:
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5912
Maximize the Racial Divide
Race; Posted on: 2008-11-01
[ Printer friendly / Instant flyer ]
Win or lose we must hope for the maximum racial voting gap, and a resulting
racial polarization as clear as the different racial reactions to the verdict
in the O.J. Simpson murder trial.
Our project, our purpose, our goal and our cause is to save our race. But we
in the white racial activist community, by ourselves, lack the power to save
our race — to save it from its dispossession, from the loss of its homelands,
from the loss of its independence, from its subjugation to alien rule and
domination, from its reduction to minority status, from its destruction and
ultimate extinction.
Since it is beyond our power, and beyond our control, to save our race, we
look to something else beyond us, far greater than us, to help us.
The only human agency we can look for, and hope for, to save us, is the
existence of something inherent and latent, but presently mostly suppressed or
inactive, in our race. The existence of such a power is the necessary
precondition for any possibility of saving our race. Only such a power could
give us something we could direct, that we could work with, sufficient to save
our race.
Thus everything we hope to achieve is based on the assumption that this power
does exist. This latent power is an embedded sense of racial group identity
and loyalty.
This sense of racial group loyalty is not distributed equally throughout all
our race. It is essentially absent in many while in others it is so strong as
to already be manifest and active, as in the white activist community. We must
hope that it would be potentially strong enough in the majority of our race to
be able to save us.
Ultimately all our hopes for the salvation of our race depend on this — to
find that, when our backs are to the wall things will change. We have to
believe that whites are like the lion in the old Disney cartoon Lambert the
Sheepish Lion. The lion has always acted like a sheep, and always thought it
was a sheep. But when the moment demands it, he is a lion after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRtKAQJUc3g
In effect, our hopes are based on the assumption that enough of our race have
the lion of racial loyalty somewhere inside them, and our mission is to bring
it to life and direct it.
We look with both hope and despair for signs of this latent racial force that
could save us. This power is generally so suppressed and hidden that evidence
for it is usually indirect and circumstantial, often no more than fleeting
hints. Yet it is the substance behind what Kevin MacDonald has termed
“implicit whiteness” and what our opponents decry as unconscious racism.
News Source: occidental observer
America enters a period of intense racial/political agitation, great
times ahead to promote nationalism.
ted
2007-2008 European Americans United.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
Sniff....Sniff...Sniff....
I smell a TROLL!
And that ain't easy to do when you have a pug nose....  )
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=pzMqQxAAAADvM2oXo2ykhIr_LVpymT6_
The Eternally Curious
"Nosy" Tigger ) |
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Maximize the Racial Divide |
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On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:35:27 -0700, wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:00:02 GMT, jazzerciser@hotmail.com (-) wrote:
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5912
Maximize the Racial Divide
Race; Posted on: 2008-11-01
[ Printer friendly / Instant flyer ]
Win or lose we must hope for the maximum racial voting gap, and a resulting
racial polarization as clear as the different racial reactions to the verdict
in the O.J. Simpson murder trial.
Our project, our purpose, our goal and our cause is to save our race. But we
in the white racial activist community, by ourselves, lack the power to save
our race — to save it from its dispossession, from the loss of its homelands,
from the loss of its independence, from its subjugation to alien rule and
domination, from its reduction to minority status, from its destruction and
ultimate extinction.
Since it is beyond our power, and beyond our control, to save our race, we
look to something else beyond us, far greater than us, to help us.
The only human agency we can look for, and hope for, to save us, is the
existence of something inherent and latent, but presently mostly suppressed or
inactive, in our race. The existence of such a power is the necessary
precondition for any possibility of saving our race. Only such a power could
give us something we could direct, that we could work with, sufficient to save
our race.
Thus everything we hope to achieve is based on the assumption that this power
does exist. This latent power is an embedded sense of racial group identity
and loyalty.
This sense of racial group loyalty is not distributed equally throughout all
our race. It is essentially absent in many while in others it is so strong as
to already be manifest and active, as in the white activist community. We must
hope that it would be potentially strong enough in the majority of our race to
be able to save us.
Ultimately all our hopes for the salvation of our race depend on this — to
find that, when our backs are to the wall things will change. We have to
believe that whites are like the lion in the old Disney cartoon Lambert the
Sheepish Lion. The lion has always acted like a sheep, and always thought it
was a sheep. But when the moment demands it, he is a lion after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRtKAQJUc3g
In effect, our hopes are based on the assumption that enough of our race have
the lion of racial loyalty somewhere inside them, and our mission is to bring
it to life and direct it.
We look with both hope and despair for signs of this latent racial force that
could save us. This power is generally so suppressed and hidden that evidence
for it is usually indirect and circumstantial, often no more than fleeting
hints. Yet it is the substance behind what Kevin MacDonald has termed
“implicit whiteness” and what our opponents decry as unconscious racism.
News Source: occidental observer
America enters a period of intense racial/political agitation, great
times ahead to promote nationalism.
ted
2007-2008 European Americans United. |
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Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Maximize the Racial Divide |
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wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 05:35:27 -0700, wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:00:02 GMT, jazzerciser@hotmail.com (-) wrote:
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5912
Maximize the Racial Divide
Race; Posted on: 2008-11-01
[ Printer friendly / Instant flyer ]
Win or lose we must hope for the maximum racial voting gap, and a resulting
racial polarization as clear as the different racial reactions to the verdict
in the O.J. Simpson murder trial.
Our project, our purpose, our goal and our cause is to save our race. But we
in the white racial activist community, by ourselves, lack the power to save
our race — to save it from its dispossession, from the loss of its homelands,
from the loss of its independence, from its subjugation to alien rule and
domination, from its reduction to minority status, from its destruction and
ultimate extinction.
Since it is beyond our power, and beyond our control, to save our race, we
look to something else beyond us, far greater than us, to help us.
The only human agency we can look for, and hope for, to save us, is the
existence of something inherent and latent, but presently mostly suppressed or
inactive, in our race. The existence of such a power is the necessary
precondition for any possibility of saving our race. Only such a power could
give us something we could direct, that we could work with, sufficient to save
our race.
Thus everything we hope to achieve is based on the assumption that this power
does exist. This latent power is an embedded sense of racial group identity
and loyalty.
This sense of racial group loyalty is not distributed equally throughout all
our race. It is essentially absent in many while in others it is so strong as
to already be manifest and active, as in the white activist community. We must
hope that it would be potentially strong enough in the majority of our race to
be able to save us.
Ultimately all our hopes for the salvation of our race depend on this — to
find that, when our backs are to the wall things will change. We have to
believe that whites are like the lion in the old Disney cartoon Lambert the
Sheepish Lion. The lion has always acted like a sheep, and always thought it
was a sheep. But when the moment demands it, he is a lion after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRtKAQJUc3g
In effect, our hopes are based on the assumption that enough of our race have
the lion of racial loyalty somewhere inside them, and our mission is to bring
it to life and direct it.
We look with both hope and despair for signs of this latent racial force that
could save us. This power is generally so suppressed and hidden that evidence
for it is usually indirect and circumstantial, often no more than fleeting
hints. Yet it is the substance behind what Kevin MacDonald has termed
“implicit whiteness” and what our opponents decry as unconscious racism.
News Source: occidental observer
America enters a period of intense racial/political agitation, great
times ahead to promote nationalism.
ted
2007-2008 European Americans United.
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Helter Skelter - Charlie Don't Surf.
FFF
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff |
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whitroth
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Doug Freyburger wrote:
| Quote: | Néo <n...@adresski.ru> wrote:
I have had quite a few glimpses from Odin ...
I've had one dramatic one. He showed up and told me to
follow. No details, no explanation. After considerable
pondering I decided most of the ancients followed the
pantheon as a whole not one specific patron so that's
what I've done in Asatru. The Wanderer is quite welcome
to show up any time and give more details. So far, no
corrections. I've had contacts since with various others
in the pantheon ranging from life changing through brief
feelings of fellowship.
snip |
I'm not a follower of the Northern path, but from what I know of the
Wanderer, He wasn't really worrying about humans. He had a goal, and used
anyone and anything as a tool towards that goal.
I mean, if it happened to help us, fine, but that was not a major
consideration.
mark
--
Bush let them get the Library (and Museum) at Baghdad. They're not
getting mine (without a fight). |
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The Dink
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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Northern England is not Anglo-Saxon, it is Celto-Nordic, so adopt the Celtic
gods as Vamatrave, thus Taranis is the Vamatru version of Thor.
"Crowlie" <tjurri@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2HwPk.10692$sc2.9675@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
| Quote: | Néo wrote:
Néo a écrit :
Crowlie a écrit :
(...)
Hi Neo,
Just found another really interesting reference to sexuality...
http://www.uppsalaonline.com/uppsala/odin.htm
Interesting stuff. I'll take the time to study it more
in-depth...
It seems this Web site mostly deals with Loki and Odin.
From my personal experience, I can tell mostly nothing
about the first one - even though I'd say I'm wary about
him... One person which I happened to meet IRL some time
ago happens to be the bearer of the soul of Fenris the
wolf, one of Loki's children. In this very case, the bad
reputation of the beast was really fully deserved - I'm
talking about a cold-blooded murderer. I'm not implying
that one may not be able to learn from Loki... I'm only
saying that my subjective feeling is, I'd rather refrain
from dealing with him all the more since there are other
Deities which may provide guidance, teaching, protection
and help along the way. YMMV.
Yeah, the guy who wrote most of the stuff on Uppsala is heavily into Odin.
His story of his experiences of the path have actually made me much more
wary of Odin that of Loki! Odin once killed a heap of peasants, real
people, in order to transform and move between the realms. Not to mention
that his most common reward for warriors who serve him is betrayal and
bloody death in battle... though the individuals involved may be
predisposed to such a thing in any case.
Thor seems a more reliable provider of protection, but without the
connection to runes, wisdom or magic that Odin is famous for.
I have had quite a few glimpses from Odin. Briefly put,
the ones from which I have been taught the most, among
the ones mentioned in the Norse pantheon, are Freyja,
Frigg, Odin and Bragi.
It's a real shame there isn't more around about the Goddesses.
Particularly Freya, who initiated Odin into the ways of wisdom... Since
I'm also more into the magic and mysticism of the path it would interest
me. I don't want to be seeking wisdom and wind up devoted to a bloody
minded God of war.
One idea expressed in this site which I found especially
interesting and very much in line with what I learned and
experienced so far is:
"And additionally, each of these relationships [between
Odin and one of his spouses] produces something integral
to Odin and his plans, anything from children that can
fulfill certain roles to the wisest of counsel."
About Odin's connection...
It started as a curiosity, but yanno, I think it's a really good thing
to give people permission culturally to explore stuff like this so that
they know what they're about, rather than having to repress suspicions.
Wassail, Lis
As I briefly explained, I have begun to study Norse lore
after having started a neo-shamanic type path, and to put
it briefly, I was taught a few things by some beings from
the Upper World, some of which let me gradually figure out,
quite later on, that they most probably were IE Deities.
So this sort of forced me to study IE mythologies, first
Ancient Greek ones (the archaic versions of it being far
more relevant to me), then later on, also Norse ones...
Some of these experiences do relate to sacred sexuality
as well as gender switching (maybe this is what you meant
by using the term cross-dressing). So basically, what you
first wrote here did ring a bell, for sure.
Quoting this uppsalaonline.com site again, and adding
alt.religion.shamanism:
"Seidh practice may have involved various cross-gendered
practices, such as cross-dressing or passive homosexuality.
(This is not a certain thing. There are arguments both ways
about it. But male seidh practitioners were often referred
to as seidhberendur, and berendur was a coarse term in Old
Norse for female genitalia, and was used to refer to
homosexual men, amongst other things.) Thus Odin can also
be seen as god of the transgendered of various kinds."
Which is interesting that even though it was a derogatory term creates
cultural space or even (possibly) permissions for trans-gendered and
homosexual people to have a practical place within the community as
practitioners of magic or other artistic gifts.
This could be seen as linked to the topic of two-spirit
shamans. I don't know about the Asatru stance on this.
It's a topic of interest to me since quite some time.
You might find you get as many different opinions as people you talk to...
Unfortunately, from what I could check on the archives,
it was never mentioned on alt.religion.shamanism. Well,
now it's done.
Would be interesting to know from current Shamanic pratitioners what they
experience the link to be. Might explain a few things for me myself. My
familiar spirit is male.
So many questions!
Wassail, Lis
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Crowlie
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Gods and Goddesses |
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The Dink wrote:
| Quote: | Northern England is not Anglo-Saxon, it is Celto-Nordic, so adopt the Celtic
gods as Vamatrave, thus Taranis is the Vamatru version of Thor.
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Interesting thought... Currently I'm feeling very good about devoting
myself to the Aesir and Vanir. It's working for me well and there's
plenty of scope in the culture for all my spiritual interests.
I'm very pleased to have begun exploring Asatru.
Lis
| Quote: | "Crowlie" <tjurri@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2HwPk.10692$sc2.9675@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Néo wrote:
Néo a écrit :
Crowlie a écrit :
(...)
Hi Neo,
Just found another really interesting reference to sexuality...
http://www.uppsalaonline.com/uppsala/odin.htm
Interesting stuff. I'll take the time to study it more
in-depth...
It seems this Web site mostly deals with Loki and Odin.
From my personal experience, I can tell mostly nothing
about the first one - even though I'd say I'm wary about
him... One person which I happened to meet IRL some time
ago happens to be the bearer of the soul of Fenris the
wolf, one of Loki's children. In this very case, the bad
reputation of the beast was really fully deserved - I'm
talking about a cold-blooded murderer. I'm not implying
that one may not be able to learn from Loki... I'm only
saying that my subjective feeling is, I'd rather refrain
from dealing with him all the more since there are other
Deities which may provide guidance, teaching, protection
and help along the way. YMMV.
Yeah, the guy who wrote most of the stuff on Uppsala is heavily into Odin.
His story of his experiences of the path have actually made me much more
wary of Odin that of Loki! Odin once killed a heap of peasants, real
people, in order to transform and move between the realms. Not to mention
that his most common reward for warriors who serve him is betrayal and
bloody death in battle... though the individuals involved may be
predisposed to such a thing in any case.
Thor seems a more reliable provider of protection, but without the
connection to runes, wisdom or magic that Odin is famous for.
I have had quite a few glimpses from Odin. Briefly put,
the ones from which I have been taught the most, among
the ones mentioned in the Norse pantheon, are Freyja,
Frigg, Odin and Bragi.
It's a real shame there isn't more around about the Goddesses.
Particularly Freya, who initiated Odin into the ways of wisdom... Since
I'm also more into the magic and mysticism of the path it would interest
me. I don't want to be seeking wisdom and wind up devoted to a bloody
minded God of war.
One idea expressed in this site which I found especially
interesting and very much in line with what I learned and
experienced so far is:
"And additionally, each of these relationships [between
Odin and one of his spouses] produces something integral
to Odin and his plans, anything from children that can
fulfill certain roles to the wisest of counsel."
[...] |
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