| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
a_messenger
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
 |
|
Believe in Jesus, the son of the God, who died on cross for our sins.
The one who believe in Him will have eternal life in paradise after
death. I can assure that He is real because of my experience. |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
Douglas McAdam
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
On Apr 13, 2008, at 11:26 AM, a_messenger wrote:
| Quote: | Believe in Jesus, the son of the God, who died on cross for our sins.
The one who believe in Him will have eternal life in paradise after
death. I can assure that He is real because of my experience.
|
Yes, I can attest Jesus is real and always was. I cannot imagine a
time when there was no Jesus. However I can say this about all the
Manifestations of God too. The Spirit of God Jesus is most certainly
with us and His new title is Baha'u'llah. He could not have died on
the cross.
> |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Carl Brehmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
On Apr 13, 8:26 am, a_messenger <correct_sc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Believe in Jesus, the son of the God, who died on cross for our sins.
The one who believe in Him will have eternal life in paradise after
death. I can assure that He is real because of my experience.
|
Bahá’ís do believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Who died on
the cross for the remission of sin. Although Bahá’ís also believe that~l
one must do more than just “believe” in Him. One must also abide by
the will of the Father even as Christ said, “Not every one that saith
unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he
that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matt 7:21)
James the brother of our Lord went on to explain, “What doth it
profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not
works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and
destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in
peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those
things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? . . .
“But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is
dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had
offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought
with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? . . .
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only." (James 2:14-16, 20-22, 24)
Beyond this the Bahá’í Faith teaches that “paradise” is not
exclusively reserved for one’s after life, but rather is accessible in
the moment, right here and now through attainment unto the “divine
Presence,” which is the purpose of our being and the birthright of
every human being: “The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and
will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His
Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the
heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures
unequivocally bear witness. Whoso hath recognized the Day Spring of
Divine guidance and entered His holy court hath drawn nigh unto God
and attained His Presence, a Presence which is the real Paradise, and
of which the loftiest mansions of heaven are but a symbol.” Gleanings,
p. 71
Bahá’u’lláh reveals that such can be achieved in a single step,~l
a
single breath. He said, “These journeys have no visible ending in the
world of time, but the severed wayfarer—if invisible confirmation
descend upon him and the Guardian of the Cause assist him—may cross
these seven stages in seven steps, nay rather in seven breaths, nay
rather in a single breath, if God will and desire it. And this is of
'His grace on such of His servants as He pleaseth.'" Seven Valleys and
Four Valleys, pp.41-42
Carl Brehmer |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Douglas McAdam
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
On Apr 26, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Carl Brehmer wrote:
| Quote: | On Apr 13, 8:26 am, a_messenger <correct_sc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Believe in Jesus, the son of the God, who died on cross for our sins.
The one who believe in Him will have eternal life in paradise after
death. I can assure that He is real because of my experience.
|
I'm curious as to what experience this person had to prove such a
belief.
regards,
doug |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Carl Brehmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
| Quote: | On Apr 13, 8:26 am, a_messenger <correct_sc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Believe in Jesus, the son of the God, who died on cross for our sins.
The one who believe in Him will have eternal life in paradise after
death. I can assure that He is real because of my experience.
I'm curious as to what experience this person had to prove such a
belief.
|
Since he didn't elaborate on the experience that proved to him
that Jesus Christ is "real" (He said, "I can assure that He is real
because of my experience.") let's assume that what he experienced was
the "divine Presence." It is a teaching of the Bahá’í Faith, is it
not, that all of the Manifestations of God are embodiments of the
divine Presence, therefore we shouldn’t doubt that the followers of
any divine religion can and do experience that Presence through their
respective Prophet.
He, like the rest of us, has not unexpectedly interpreted that
most mysterious of all human experiences within the context of the
religion in which he found himself. Had he been a Muslim no doubt he
would have viewed it as a confirmation that Muslim teachings are
true. Had he been a Buddhist no doubt he would have viewed it as a
confirmation that Buddhist teachings are true. Had he been a ___ no
doubt he would have viewed it as a confirmation that ___ teachings are
true (fill in the blank.) We are all united by our common humanity
and shouldn’t be lured into thinking that what we experience in prayer
and worship differs substantially from what others experience in
prayer and worship.
What the Bahá’í Faith has to offer, I believe, is the opportunity
to place such divine experiences within the context of a religion that
has been stripped of superstition and is suited for this Day.
Everyone should be aware that when they become Bahá’ís they will
continue to have the spiritual experience that brought them to God’s
love in the first place with the added bonus of having that experience
in more abundance, otherwise what’s the draw?
Carl Brehmer |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Susan Maneck
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
| Quote: |
I'm curious as to what experience this person had to prove such a belief.
|
I don't think this guy is really participating on this list. I think
we were just spammed. But usually when Christians say they know Jesus
exist because they experience Him, it is not all that different from
what Baha'is might say about Baha'u'llah. The problem is that often
times these kinds of Christians can't accept that anyone by them has
such experiences.
warmest, Susan |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Douglas McAdam
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
Hi Carl-
I agree with you.
However usually when I hear these kinds of statements by well meaning
Christians it is followed by something to the effect that if others do
not believe as they say then they will not be saved, or they are going
to hell.
Just had this experience myself in our Jail when a Baptist preacher
came and conducted a "revival meeting" in which he stated fervently
that the only way to salvation was to believe a Christian.
regards,
doug
On Apr 27, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Carl Brehmer wrote:
| Quote: | On Apr 13, 8:26 am, a_messenger <correct_sc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Believe in Jesus, the son of the God, who died on cross for our
sins.
The one who believe in Him will have eternal life in paradise after
death. I can assure that He is real because of my experience.
I'm curious as to what experience this person had to prove such a
belief.
Since he didn't elaborate on the experience that proved to him
that Jesus Christ is "real" (He said, "I can assure that He is real
because of my experience.") let's assume that what he experienced was
the "divine Presence." It is a teaching of the Bahá’í Faith, is
it
not, that all of the Manifestations of God are embodiments of the
divine Presence, therefore we shouldn’t doubt that the followers of
any divine religion can and do experience that Presence through their
respective Prophet.
He, like the rest of us, has not unexpectedly interpreted that
most mysterious of all human experiences within the context of the
religion in which he found himself. Had he been a Muslim no doubt he
would have viewed it as a confirmation that Muslim teachings are
true. Had he been a Buddhist no doubt he would have viewed it as a
confirmation that Buddhist teachings are true. Had he been a ___ no
doubt he would have viewed it as a confirmation that ___ teachings are
true (fill in the blank.) We are all united by our common humanity
and shouldn’t be lured into thinking that what we experience in
prayer
and worship differs substantially from what others experience in
prayer and worship.
What the Bahá’í Faith has to offer, I believe, is the
opportunity
to place such divine experiences within the context of a religion that
has been stripped of superstition and is suited for this Day.
Everyone should be aware that when they become Bahá’ís they will
continue to have the spiritual experience that brought them to God’s
love in the first place with the added bonus of having that experience
in more abundance, otherwise what’s the draw?
Carl Brehmer
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Suzanne
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
Carl Brehmer wrote:
| Quote: | Since he didn't elaborate on the experience that proved to him
that Jesus Christ is "real" (He said, "I can assure that He is real
because of my experience.") let's assume that what he experienced was
the "divine Presence."
|
Dear Carl,
While we don't seem to have any "seekers" on the forum at the moment,
I am aware that many people do read what's written if they feel it's
relevant to them. Perhaps you could explain what you mean by the
"divine Presence." Have you or others on this forum experienced it?
What was it like?
| Quote: | It is a teaching of the Bahá’í Faith, is it
not, that all of the Manifestations of God are embodiments of the
divine Presence, therefore we shouldn’t doubt that the followers of
any divine religion can and do experience that Presence through their
respective Prophet.
|
If I were a Christian and reading through this thread I would wonder
what a Manifestation of God is. This is not a concept which is taught
in Christianity or in the Bible. At least not directly. Perhaps if we
address the questions of seekers, even if they aren't here, they will
eventually come forward and start asking outright. IWhat is a
Manifestation of God? How does that relate to Christians? Isn't
Christ unique?
What do you suppose Christ meant when He said He was the "only way to
the Father"?
Kind regards,
Suzanne |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Suzanne
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
Carl Brehmer wrote:
| Quote: | He, like the rest of us, has not unexpectedly interpreted that
most mysterious of all human experiences within the context of the
religion in which he found himself. Had he been a Muslim no doubt he
would have viewed it as a confirmation that Muslim teachings are
true. Had he been a Buddhist no doubt he would have viewed it as a
confirmation that Buddhist teachings are true. Had he been a ___ no
doubt he would have viewed it as a confirmation that ___ teachings are
true (fill in the blank.)
|
Yes, it takes something out of the ordinary to look at the teachings
of the Founders of the world's great religions with an open heart and
mind, and imagine that they all could possibly come from the same
God. I know you come from a Christian background. How did you make
this leap? Was it just a sudden belief in all the Manifestations of
God, or was it primarily Baha'u'llah you first believed in, and a
belief in the others resulted from it?
For me it was simultaneous. I had read a book on near-death
experiences which opened me up to the possiblity of God. But I
imagined that if there really were a loving God, like the Being of
Light, He would love all humanity. He wouldnt' be exclusive. He would
give His teachings to all. I became interested to know what the Holy
Books of the world's great religions had to say about an afterlife, so
I read through all of them that I could find. I didn't find much on
that particular subject, but I did find that all the Holy Books of the
world's great religions taught very similar truths. They all taught
us to forget our own selves and to love others. It seemed as if all
were telling the same truths, sometimes almost in identical words.
This excited me and fit with the idea that God had always sent His
Messengers to all parts of the planet. Then I found Baha'ullah and
discovered that He actually taught what I was coming to believe. All
the religions come from the same God. In the words of Baha'u'llah:
"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of
whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly
Source, and are the subjects of one God." - Baha'u'llah
And, from my reading of the book on near-death experiences I had come
to believe that the afterlife will be wonderful for virtually all of
us: This too was confirmed by Baha'u'llah:
"I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Wherefore dost thou
grieve? I made the light to shed on Thee its splendor. Why dost thou
veil theyself therefrom?" -- Baha'u'llah
My recognition was simultaneously from the head and the heart. There
was a little explosion in it, and I was moved to my depths. I went
into a spiritual renaissance, the likes of which I had never
experienced before. From a head level, I felt like all the mysteries
in the Universe had been locked doors, and I now possessed the key to
opening them all. I was filled to overflowing with joy. I suppose
Christians would say I was "born again." I had been born into
spiritual world and I was blessed with new eyes and new ears, and saw
the world quite differently.
We are all united by our common humanity
| Quote: | and shouldn’t be lured into thinking that what we experience in prayer
and worship differs substantially from what others experience in
prayer and worship.
|
I believe this is true, but then my belief doesn't rest on the
importance of exclusivity. As Baha'u'llah said, "The tabernacle of
unity hath been raised; regard ye not one another as strangers. Ye
are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch."
Of course Christ also said that there would be a day when we would all
be united with one Shepherd and one flock:
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must
bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and
one shepherd. (John 10:16)
Amen to that.
Kind regards,
Suzanne |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Carl Brehmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
| Quote: | Perhaps you could explain what you mean by the 
"divine Presence."
Have you or others on this forum experienced it? 
What was it like
? |
Hi Suzanne,
From my perspective the “divine Presence”--like love, j
oy or
exuberance--can only be defined through personal experience. One can
no more explain it than one could explain what it feels like to have
joy or to feel love (both of which are elements of the divine
Presence.)
Since God is “omnipresent” I believe that most people h
ave
experienced the “divine Presence” in abundance yet have simp
ly failed
to recognize it as such. If I may be so bold let me suggest that when
you feel love you are feeling the Presence of God; when you feel joy
you are feeling the Presence of God; when you feel generous you are
feeling the Presence of God; when you feel peaceful you are feeling
the Presence of God; in short, when you feel any of what we call
“divine attributes” you are feeling the Presence of God; whe
n you feel
anything that transcends the mundane reality of material existence you
are feeling the Presence of God.
What would be more difficult for me to accept is the idea that
experiencing the “divine Presence” is a rare phenomenon rese
rved for a
select few individuals who subscribe to a particular limited theology
whatever it may be. Hasn’t Bahá’u’lláh sa
id:
“Suffer not yourselves to be wrapt in the dense veils of your
selfish desires, inasmuch as I have perfected in every one of you My
creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed
unto men. It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will
continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the
Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he
be called to account for his failure?” Gleanings p. 143
To me the phrase: “. . . every man hath been, and will continue
to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the
Glorified,” rules out any possibility of exclusivity with relation t
o
anyone's ability to experience the divine Presence and in that quest I
have found the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh to be parti
cularly helpful
since they are the pure Word of God written with an abundance and
clarity the likes of which the world has not seen. In particular, I
have found the process of memorizing the Word to be a strong inducer
of the divine Presence. I don't know what other people feel when they
engage in memorizing selections from Bahá’u’lláh's
Revelation, but
doing so transports me mentally and spiritually to heavenly realms
that are inaccessible through any other means.
Carl Brehmer |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Carl Brehmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Jesus is the saviour - Believe in Him |
|
|
| Quote: | What do you suppose Christ meant when He said He was the
"only way to 
the Father"?
|
This is my perspective on this question.
The Bahá’à Faith teaches that the Holy Spirit has man
ifested
Himself in our world a number of times over the years through
personages such as Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Christ, Muhammad
and Bahá’u’lláh and with each appearance has spawn
ed a new religion.
Each religion has naturally taken on a different appearance, because
the culture and capacity of those to whom it was revealed were
different. Not unlike the difference in color that different flowers
show even though they are all illumined by the same sun.
Some say that this is impossible since Christ said, “I am the
way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by
me.” (John 14:6) When one investigates these other religions though
one finds that the Holy Spirit has said essentially the same thing
each time that He has appeared. Behold:
In the Hindu Scriptures we read, “Abandoning all duties, come t
o
Me alone for shelter.” Bhagavad Gita 18:66
In the Buddhist Scriptures we read, “This is the path. There is
no other that leads to vision.” Dhammapada 20:274
In Zoroastrian Scriptures we read, “There is only one religious
way. This one way is that of good thoughts, good words, and good
deeds, the way of heaven, of light and of purity, of the infinite
Creator.” The Teachings of the Magi, p.22 (The Kings who visited Jes
us
upon His birth were Zoroastrian Magi.)
In the Muslum Scriptures we read, “Whoso seeks guidance
elsewhere, God will lead him astray.” Imam'Ali, Hadith
Bahá’u’lláh said, “He that hath Me no
t is bereft of all things.
Turn ye away from all that is on earth and seek none else but Me.”
Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 169
In my view, in each instance the Bahá’à Writings asse
rt that it
was the same Holy Spirit calling humanity unto Himself and therefore
unto God.
Carl Brehmer |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
