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duke
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT), claire.easthope@ntlworld.com wrote:
| Quote: | On 19 Aug, 12:46, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT), claire.easth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Because he loves insulting everybody! To him insulting people is no
more a waste of time than sport (which is pretty much a waste of time
but gives people pleasure!)
The RC is insulted, or the RC does the insulting?
Jim does the insulting and he does it in the name of the Catholic
church but rest assured we know that Jim does not represent all
Catholics! 
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I still don't know who Jim is or what he says. But after watching protest_ants
in action, it's evident that they don't know much of scripture, ESPECIALLY NT
scripture as revealed by Jesus Christ.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:48:57 +0100, "Martin" <martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course,
more
than the Church in theological matters.
Hardly surprising, since your particular church almost always comes up
wanting in this respect Jim. They are so incredibly inflexible and
arrogant,
so far out of tune and out of touch with reality, they only admitted
Galileo
was right in the late C19!
To my astonishment, they actually have representatives (c/w monks habit,
tonsure etc.) who shamelessly appear on TV programs today, to defend and
justify the methods and institution of the Spanish Inquisition - somewhat
inneffectively I thought.
Did your church from AD0 wear 3 piece suits?
My "church" is my own, and derives from long before AD0, as well as long
after AD0. No 'suit' ever tells me what to believe, or what to do!
|
Ok, so you're Jewish.
| Quote: | The Vatican remains one of the most paranoid, blinkered and uncompromising
authorities in the world, and also one of the most secretive - hardly
surprising when you see what they have to hide!
How does one compromise the word of God? The easiest way is to think an
individual has a corner on the market.
You have hit the nail on the head there Duke! The only thing I'd add is
'claims to have', or perhaps 'thinks it has' before "cornering the market",
as that is quite plainly obvious in respect of God's Word and the Catholic
Church.
|
History and scripture and scripture history does you in.
| Quote: | They did very well at concealing the fact they were lacking in this respect
for some 1500 years, but failed in the end, despite using intimidation,
terror and unspeakable brutality to prevent the general public merely
reading the Bible for themselves. The Truth will always come out however...
and whether you believe the Bible to be the absolute, irrevocable and
unaltered Word of God or not, that despicable behaviour is well-recorded
historical fact (indeed, recorded by those who did it!).
|
Why would the Catholic Chruch "disallow" reading the bible?
| Quote: | The Holy Father and his predecessors claim to have been "God's Vicar on
Earth", do they not?
|
Yep, Mat 16:13-20.
| Quote: | Including Pope Joan, and my distant relative, Pope
Alexander of the Borgia family.
|
There was no Pope Joan. There can only be one Holy Father at one time, and she
weren't it.
| Quote: | I'm quite sure that even his children (not
bad for a Pope?) Cesare and Lucretia would have laughed at any suggestion
that the Vatican is the repository of God's Word...
|
Repository means that all of scripture - all OT and all NT and all Holy
Tradition (John 21:25) best defines God's word. And few to no individuals are
capable of such massive understanding and comprehension.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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| Quote: | Yet turn to their own authority to declare truth?
I turn to the authority of the bible - bypassing all those hail-marys
etc gets you there a lot quicker! ;-)
Here's your choice over the Hail Mary.
John 6:53-54 (New International Version)
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the
Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my >flesh
and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
|
Ah transubstantiation! More dogma! Do you not see the error of your
argument that you are superior because you do something that only you
believe you do in the first place???? What is the basis of this
belief? oh yeah you’re the one true church! What is the basis of that
belief? Oh yeah a Pope said it! Why does the Pope have authority? Oh
because he is the head of the Catholic church which is of course the
true church (obviously because only Catholic clergy can go around
transubstantiating all that bread and wine!) :-/
| Quote: | In other words, they might not hear what they want to hear. Jim seems to
find that all freedom of thought (religiously) is heretical, as is any
criticism of the CC.
Well, I don't know what Jim said. I think all Christians should buy a copy of
the Catechism and read it. Most for the first time would find out how scripture
all comes together, OT + NT, rather than see scripture as a bunch of one-liners.
We don't but there is some room for the holy spirit - we don't need
dogma for everything and anything! We can sleep easy at night not
knowing how many angels could dance on the head of a pin!
John 6:53-54 is clearly scriptural.
Will you take it or leave it?
|
I left it. I was brought up experiencing both traditions and given a
choice. I was taught it did not matter which denomination you were.
Apparently that makes my mother a not very good Catholic but I tell
you this for sure she kept her faith and is the reason I am a
Christian - people like you are the reason I’m not a Catholic! |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On 20 Aug, 13:11, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT), claire.easth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
On 19 Aug, 12:46, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT), claire.easth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Because he loves insulting everybody! To him insulting people is no
more a waste of time than sport (which is pretty much a waste of time
but gives people pleasure!)
The RC is insulted, or the RC does the insulting?
Jim does the insulting and he does it in the name of the Catholic
church but rest assured we know that Jim does not represent all
Catholics! :-)
I still don't know who Jim is or what he says. But after watching protest_ants
in action, it's evident that they don't know much of scripture, ESPECIALLY NT
scripture as revealed by Jesus Christ.
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Hmmm, how many Catholics and Protestants were there in Jesus's time
then? |
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Martin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:e02oa4pp9ffrgicr0oc07sk297u997at69@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:15:12 +0100, "Martin"
martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com
wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:d9cla4tcvfsmfdrptl3d6sms6q4hl8tmae@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:14:59 +0100, "Martin"
martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com
wrote:
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born
again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course,
more
than the Church in theological matters. When they agree amongst
themselves
then we can worry, much like the history of the Church and
Christendom.
We
should have stuck to the Latin and spared the grief.
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Hmmmm... probably because most people here express their beliefs without
fear or favour, and are not afraid to question tradition, superstition
and
self-proclaimed 'authority'.
Yet turn to their own authority to declare truth?
In the respect of "God's Word", I personally accept nobody's, and no
organisation/church/cult/guru/prophet's (etc.etc) assurances or promises
that they have it exclusively, and all others are wrong - how incredibly
arrogant is that!
It's your funeral to follow your own guide rather than God's lead.
|
My funeral really doesn't bother me, since I know it isn't the end of me,
and what happens after it is largely my responsibility and destiny.. "God's
lead" (as you put it) is another matter, which I am fairly satisfied to have
found without any help from others, or advice from organised religion.
| Quote: | Truth (in this respect) does not come from ancient, mistranslated,
questionable historical documents, nor from the tempting promises and
sleek
words of modern day, self-proclaimed 'messiahs', it comes from the heart
and
soul.
Yet your heart, as mankind, is driven by the things of the flesh. Unless
your
elective free choice is to God over flesh and self.
|
In some ways I think I have 'transcended' the body, and know the 'right
way'. The God I respect is however not the spoteful, childish one of the OT,
nor the vague, patronising one of the NT, but an indescribable Force to be
respected and cherished - not blindly worshipped, blamed for disasters, and
begged for favours as required.
| Quote: | In other words, they might not hear what they want to hear. Jim seems to
find that all freedom of thought (religiously) is heretical, as is any
criticism of the CC.
Well, I don't know what Jim said. I think all Christians should buy a
copy of
the Catechism and read it. Most for the first time would find out how
scripture
all comes together, OT + NT, rather than see scripture as a bunch of
one-liners.
Jim (if you don't know of him) is a somewhat irascible and abrasive
fellow,
who puts backs up and is not afraid to use insult and abuse to push his
points - even he would not disagree with that I suspect? He is therefore
one
of the very worst choices to advocate anything at all, especially
something
so indefensible as the Catholic church!
Others are not of course, and this is certainly not an "anti-Catholic"
place, some of us are just intolerant of intolerance. In fact, some of my
best friends are catholics...
Some of my best friends are not.
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That's good to know! |
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Jesus's rectum
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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duke wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:48:57 +0100, "Martin" <martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com
wrote:
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course,
more
than the Church in theological matters.
Hardly surprising, since your particular church almost always comes up
wanting in this respect Jim. They are so incredibly inflexible and
arrogant,
so far out of tune and out of touch with reality, they only admitted
Galileo
was right in the late C19!
To my astonishment, they actually have representatives (c/w monks habit,
tonsure etc.) who shamelessly appear on TV programs today, to defend and
justify the methods and institution of the Spanish Inquisition - somewhat
inneffectively I thought.
Did your church from AD0 wear 3 piece suits?
My "church" is my own, and derives from long before AD0, as well as long
after AD0. No 'suit' ever tells me what to believe, or what to do!
Ok, so you're Jewish.
The Vatican remains one of the most paranoid, blinkered and uncompromising
authorities in the world, and also one of the most secretive - hardly
surprising when you see what they have to hide!
How does one compromise the word of God? The easiest way is to think an
individual has a corner on the market.
You have hit the nail on the head there Duke! The only thing I'd add is
'claims to have', or perhaps 'thinks it has' before "cornering the market",
as that is quite plainly obvious in respect of God's Word and the Catholic
Church.
History and scripture and scripture history does you in.
They did very well at concealing the fact they were lacking in this respect
for some 1500 years, but failed in the end, despite using intimidation,
terror and unspeakable brutality to prevent the general public merely
reading the Bible for themselves. The Truth will always come out however...
and whether you believe the Bible to be the absolute, irrevocable and
unaltered Word of God or not, that despicable behaviour is well-recorded
historical fact (indeed, recorded by those who did it!).
Why would the Catholic Chruch "disallow" reading the bible?
The Holy Father and his predecessors claim to have been "God's Vicar on
Earth", do they not?
Yep, Mat 16:13-20.
Including Pope Joan, and my distant relative, Pope
Alexander of the Borgia family.
There was no Pope Joan. There can only be one Holy Father at one time, and she
weren't it.
I'm quite sure that even his children (not
bad for a Pope?) Cesare and Lucretia would have laughed at any suggestion
that the Vatican is the repository of God's Word...
Repository means that all of scripture - all OT and all NT and all Holy
Tradition (John 21:25) best defines God's word. And few to no individuals are
capable of such massive understanding and comprehension.
|
I see that the myth-monger is still monging his myths.
(But I must say this in his favor: he provides the rest of us with a
jolly good laugh at his own expense.)
| Quote: |
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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Martin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:uf2oa41jgcajr7fqqg45qnkgsj5sk6o6ge@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:48:57 +0100, "Martin"
martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com
wrote:
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born
again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course,
more
than the Church in theological matters.
Hardly surprising, since your particular church almost always comes up
wanting in this respect Jim. They are so incredibly inflexible and
arrogant,
so far out of tune and out of touch with reality, they only admitted
Galileo
was right in the late C19!
To my astonishment, they actually have representatives (c/w monks habit,
tonsure etc.) who shamelessly appear on TV programs today, to defend and
justify the methods and institution of the Spanish Inquisition -
somewhat
inneffectively I thought.
Did your church from AD0 wear 3 piece suits?
My "church" is my own, and derives from long before AD0, as well as long
after AD0. No 'suit' ever tells me what to believe, or what to do!
Ok, so you're Jewish.
|
Not really, though some of their teaching I have taken on board (as did JC
himself I believe?). I don't fancy all that head bobbing, and the wearing of
heavy black clothes in summer... never mind the surgical procedures!
| Quote: | The Vatican remains one of the most paranoid, blinkered and
uncompromising
authorities in the world, and also one of the most secretive - hardly
surprising when you see what they have to hide!
How does one compromise the word of God? The easiest way is to think an
individual has a corner on the market.
You have hit the nail on the head there Duke! The only thing I'd add is
'claims to have', or perhaps 'thinks it has' before "cornering the
market",
as that is quite plainly obvious in respect of God's Word and the Catholic
Church.
History and scripture and scripture history does you in.
|
And historical evidence, archaeology and common sense have done for you I'm
afraid Duke! The CC has made its own Word up as it went along, for financial
and political purposes. Scripture has been put aside, swamped in a sea of
superstitious ritual, irrelevant and obscure Papal commandments, and
peculiar idolatry (mostly pinched from Pagans)..
| Quote: | They did very well at concealing the fact they were lacking in this
respect
for some 1500 years, but failed in the end, despite using intimidation,
terror and unspeakable brutality to prevent the general public merely
reading the Bible for themselves. The Truth will always come out
however...
and whether you believe the Bible to be the absolute, irrevocable and
unaltered Word of God or not, that despicable behaviour is well-recorded
historical fact (indeed, recorded by those who did it!).
Why would the Catholic Chruch "disallow" reading the bible?
|
Because they wanted the monopoly on it, and didn't wish anyone to make their
own mind up about it without going through one of their priests. In medieval
England, owning an English translation of the Bible was punishable by
burning at the stake (or in a barrel), enforced until the reign of Henry VI.
The ban on such books continued well into the reign of Henry VIII - who was
really a staunch Catholic at heart, but a greedy sod first and foremost.
The only reason I can imagine that the CC wished to keep this knowledge from
the populace is that there were things in it which they didn't like. Sounds
ridiculous doesn't it, but that they have excelled in over the years. I
personally suspect that some of JC's rather left-wing ideas were abhorrent
to those who ran the Church, and they feared (rightly) that his advice about
dealing with poverty, charity and arrogant authories would cause trouble for
them - which it did.
| Quote: | The Holy Father and his predecessors claim to have been "God's Vicar on
Earth", do they not?
Yep, Mat 16:13-20.
Including Pope Joan, and my distant relative, Pope
Alexander of the Borgia family.
There was no Pope Joan. There can only be one Holy Father at one time,
and she
weren't it.
|
There were at least two Popes for many years, rather handy when asking for
blessings and dispensations. To this very day, new Popes have to undergo a
bizarre ritual where they are exposed to the eyes of a bunch of Cardinals,
to ensure no more female transvestite takes the position of Holy Father. A
most undignified affair, but not without good reason. Lucretia Borgia was
sometimes delegated as 'acting Pope' when her father was indisposed, there
is even a painting of her on the throne... there has been no lack of female
influence at the Vatican, only official denials of it!
| Quote: | I'm quite sure that even his children (not
bad for a Pope?) Cesare and Lucretia would have laughed at any suggestion
that the Vatican is the repository of God's Word...
Repository means that all of scripture - all OT and all NT and all Holy
Tradition (John 21:25) best defines God's word. And few to no individuals
are
capable of such massive understanding and comprehension.
|
I'd say that nearly ALL individuals are capable.. probably without the
enormous inconsistency and errant confusion that 'scripture' undoubtedly
contains. As for 'tradition',
the adoption of the BVM as a mother godess is not mentioned in the Bible,
and was only done to make the idea of Christianity more appealing to Pagans
such as myself... not convincing.
Cheers
Martin |
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1st Century Apostolic Tra
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! and forgivness of sin |
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Sheffield Jim, when are you going to find the courage to answer the
question, have you been baptised by immersion in water as a believing adult,
or were you 'christened' as an unbelieving baby?
Jeff... |
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jwsheffield@satx.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! and forgivness of sin |
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On Aug 20, 1:36 am, claire.easth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
| Quote: | On 20 Aug, 03:37, "jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com" <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com
wrote:
Ac 16:15 - And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought
us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come
into
my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
When my two sons were born, they
were part of my household. I didn't
throw them out until they became
adults, and neither does God.
They took to the milk at
birth.
Jim
1Pe 2:2 - As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that
ye may grow thereby:
May I ask if you threw your children out
of your household, until they became
adults? If you didn't you are saying God
is worse than yoy?
Don't be silly now, take a look in a Baptist church if you want to see
what we do with our children! :-)
They make them part of their household, |
just as God does. Thank God they don't
practice what they preach.
| Quote: | As for babies not being able to believe.
Mt 21:16 - And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus
saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes
and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
That still leaves the rest who do not.
All I am saying is that baptism makes more sense when it is something
you choose for yourself following faith. It is possible to believe
after baptism which makes baptism valid retrospectively (there is a
cite for this but I don't have time to look this morning.) It is faith
that matters most not rituals - Jesus criticised the people of his day
for loving rituals more than the truth. .
|
Joh 1:13 -Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jim
Ac 2:39 - For the promise is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off,
even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
| Quote: |
Jim
Mt 11:25 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O
Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things
from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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1st Century Apostolic Tra
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Infant Baptism is useless for your Salvation! |
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"When they *believed* Philip preaching the things concerning the
kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men
and women." Acts 8:12 (KJV)
Notice it was "When they believed" in "the things concerning the kingdom of
God, and the name of Jesus Christ" they were baptised, nowhere was any form
of compulsory infant baptism [or sprinkling] allowed before belief in such
things took place, as there would not be any point, no point at all.
Authentic NT Christian baptism is a voluntary submission by the person
themselves who publically accept Christ as their savour, it is impossible
for babies to do that.
Jeff... |
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bam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Infant Baptism is useless for your Salvation! |
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"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<1stCenturyApostolic@Traditionalist.com> wrote in message
news:6s0rk.57504$lO6.50206@newsfe20.ams2...
| Quote: | "When they *believed* Philip preaching the things concerning the
kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men
and women." Acts 8:12 (KJV)
|
| Quote: | Notice it was "When they believed" in "the things concerning the kingdom
of
God, and the name of Jesus Christ" they were baptised, nowhere was any
form
of compulsory infant baptism [or sprinkling] allowed before belief in such
things took place, as there would not be any point, no point at all.
Authentic NT Christian baptism is a voluntary submission by the person
themselves who publically accept Christ as their savour, it is impossible
for babies to do that.
|
You don't know what you're talking about. You're an arrogant punk to think
that the Holy Spirit would reveal something to a vile punk like you, and
deprive everyone else of the revelation.
BAM |
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bam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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<claire.easthope@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3d060acc-5775-4b30-a14f-cba22a47d9b7@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | On 19 Aug, 13:13, "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
claire.easth...@ntlworld.com> wrote
I don't know about "the "Church" since we are all the church.
Says who?
Christ no less, that's one person you would not dare claim to be
superior to!
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Ahhh yes, typical Prod; an NT prophet answering to no one but god Himself.
| Quote: | The
essential part of being saved is belief not baptism so therefore
Catholics can be saved (yes, I hear the Pope breath a sigh of relief!)
but you are wrong to conclude that un-baptised children are not.
Says who? Are you making God in your own image?
Considering the liberties Catholicism has taken I think that's more
than a bit rich!
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Jesus gave us permission to bind and loose. Who are you to judge Jesus?
BAM |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! and forgivness of sin |
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On 21 Aug, 03:13, "jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com" <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 1:36 am, claire.easth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
On 20 Aug, 03:37, "jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com" <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com
wrote:
Ac 16:15 - And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought
us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come
into
my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
When my two sons were born, they
were part of my household. I didn't
throw them out until they became
adults, and neither does God.
They took to the milk at
birth.
Jim
1Pe 2:2 - As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that
ye may grow thereby:
May I ask if you threw your children out
of your household, until they became
adults? If you didn't you are saying God
is worse than yoy?
Don't be silly now, take a look in a Baptist church if you want to see
what we do with our children! :-)
They make them part of their household,
just as God does.
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Exactly!
| Quote: | Thank God they don't
practice what they preach.
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What the hell are you talking about you absurd little person? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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| Quote: | On 19 Aug, 13:13, "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
claire.easth...@ntlworld.com> wrote
I don't know about "the "Church" since we are all the church.
Says who?
Christ no less, that's one person you would not dare claim to be
superior to!
Ahhh yes, typical Prod;
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Typical sectarian arsehole!
| Quote: | an NT prophet answering to no one but god Himself.
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When you put your religious leaders on peddle-stools accountable to
nobody you create big problems for yourself! (I’m being diplomatic
here!)
| Quote: | The
essential part of being saved is belief not baptism so therefore
Catholics can be saved (yes, I hear the Pope breath a sigh of relief!)
but you are wrong to conclude that un-baptised children are not.
Says who? Are you making God in your own image?
Considering the liberties Catholicism has taken I think that's more
than a bit rich!
Jesus gave us permission to bind and loose.
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Aye right!
| Quote: | Who are you to judge Jesus?
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I'm not judging Jesus - I'm assessing the validity of the claim's made
by the Catholic church! The Pope and Jesus are different peope you
know!
> BAM |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Infant Baptism is useless for your Salvation! |
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On 21 Aug, 01:02, "bam" <mcca5b...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"<1stCenturyAposto...@Traditionalist.com> wrote in message
news:6s0rk.57504$lO6.50206@newsfe20.ams2...
"When they *believed* Philip preaching the things concerning the
kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men
and women." Acts 8:12 (KJV)
Notice it was "When they believed" in "the things concerning the kingdom
of
God, and the name of Jesus Christ" they were baptised, nowhere was any
form
of compulsory infant baptism [or sprinkling] allowed before belief in such
things took place, as there would not be any point, no point at all.
Authentic NT Christian baptism is a voluntary submission by the person
themselves who publically accept Christ as their savour, it is impossible
for babies to do that.
You don't know what you're talking about. You're an arrogant punk
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Yeah, you'd get on well if Jeff was a Catholic! |
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