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Harold Kupp
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 Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:52 am Post subject: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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Ronald's "out of context" scam.
When someone claims that a quote is "out of context" they are
implying that if the quote were read in its original form it would
mean something quite different.
For example if someone were to state:
"Harold said "it is OK to sin"
and when you looked at my original quote I had said:
"There are many who say it is OK to sin"
they would have changed my meaning by removing
my words from their original context.
Since many of the recent quotes from Mrs. White have put
Ronald in the untenable position of contradicting Mrs. White
he has taken to crying "out of context"... "out of context" .
Almost certainly when someone attempts to protect themselves
with the "out of context" defense and does not confirm it
by quoting the original text as evidence, it is a deception.
So, I thought in the interest of fairness, I would give
Ronald the opportunity to prove he is not practicing
deceptive tatics.
Here is Ronald's statement that Christians (including
himself ) fall and sin. (In context, of course)
| Quote: | Christians, true Christians, fall, they sin -- their lifestyles should
not be characteristic of constant, unrestrained sinning, but they
may occasionally (or slightly more than occasionally) fall and
sin
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On the contrary, here is a quote from Mrs. White which states
that those Adventists who continue in sin are liars...
All who claim to be Sabbath-keeping Adventists,
and yet **continue in sin,** are liars in God's sight.
{19MR 177.1}
Now Ronald here is your chance to prove that statement is
"taken out of context" and means something different than
what it appears to say about you and all others who continue
in sin. If you cannot prove it then you must admit that
Christians who continue in sin are liars in God's sight.
EGW:
All who claim to be Sabbath-keeping Adventists, and yet
continue in sin, are liars in God's sight. Their sinful course is
counterworking the work of God. They are leading others
into sin. The word comes from God to every member of our
churches, "And make straight paths for your feet, lest that
which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be
healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without
which no man shall see the Lord: looking diligently lest any
man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness
springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest
there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for
one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that
afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was
rejected; for he found no place of repentance, though he
sought it carefully with tears" [Heb. 12:13-17]. {19MR
177.1}
OK Ronald, now it is up to you to demonstrate that ...
Mrs. White's statement
"All who claim to be Sabbath-keeping Adventists,
and yet **continue in sin,** are liars in God's sight."
.... means something different when read in context.
And from now on Ronald, when you make accusations about
what I have said why don't you prove it by citing the original
context for a change.
Isn't that what an honest poster who had nothing to hide
would do....?
HK |
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Lamarr Edwards
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:52 am Post subject: Re: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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harold - When did you stop sinning ?
When you told that flagrant and deliberate lie in this group some months
ago, did you have knowledge of "the truth" ?
Apparently so harold, at least the warped truth you believe .
adios harold, God cannot save a lying willful sinner like you, dude, I
hope you like really hot weather, because you are headed for it, and you
have no chance to escape.
That pinnochio 2 foot growing nose will go first, but the rest won't be
far behind.
Before you go, as an EGW scholar, why don't you tell us the names of all
her books , and compilations, and letters, and sermons you have read.
How much time did you spend in the EGW archives at LLU ? I used to
spend time there, maybe we ran into one another, studying, and didn't
even know it !
Have you been to the offices of the White estate, they have a great
plethora of material by her, unfortunately, I never had the opportunity
to go there.
Your honesty in condemning yourself to hell, and to just keep hammering
those nails in your gasoline coffin is impressive, and for a flagrant
liar to keep condemning himself as you do really shows how your theology
has grabbed you.
Every time you condemn a "willful sinner"", you condemn your lying self,
adieu, oh wacky theologian who speaketh with forked tongue. LE |
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Ronald R. Walker, M.D.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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Dear Lamarr:
Isn't Harold Kupp's post, "Now is your chance Ronald ..." another re-post of the very same article he posted before?
It is interesting that he has stated "Since many of the recent quotes from Mrs. White have put Ronald in the untenable position of contradicting Mrs. White ...", especially, when I have posted recent, extensive articles showing how Harold Kupp has repeatedly misinterpreted the writings of EGW!
Of course, Harold Kupp has been repeatedly shown, not only by myself, but by other SDA's (including yourself, as an ex-SDA), that he has habitually "cherry-picked" and misinterpreted the writings of EGW, in a futile attempt to support his "God hates sinners" heresies. Apparently, unable to support his heresies using the Scriptures, Harold Kupp hopes that his misinterpretations of EGW will provide some support for his heresies. Since EGW considered herself a "lesser light" pointing Christians to the "Greater Light", the Scriptures, for doctrines of faith, isn't it sheer presumption, in the least, that he, a non-SDA, would attempt to support his heresies, which contradict the teachings of the Scriptures, by using the writings of EGW on an SDA NG?
Oh, BTW, since Harold Kupp has brought up the question of quoting EGW, before quoting, and especially before offering his private interpretations of EGW, in a post, shouldn't Harold Kupp be honest to this NG and state that he is NOT an SDA, that he does NOT accept SDA theology regarding righteousness by faith and that he has been REPEATEDLY reprimanded on this NG for his misinterpretations of EGW, where he has interpreted EGW in a manner contrary to SDA's (including the SDA Church), who actually understand the teachings of EGW from within the context of Seventh-day Adventism?
Of course, expecting honesty from Harold Kupp ...
?????? ??????? ?????,
Ron R. Walker, M.D. |
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Andrew
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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"Ronald R. Walker, M.D." wrote:
It is interesting that he has stated "Since many of the recent quotes from Mrs. White have put Ronald in the
untenable position of contradicting Mrs. White ...", especially, when I have posted recent, extensive articles
showing how Harold Kupp has repeatedly misinterpreted the writings of EGW!
Ron R. Walker, M.D.
----
Yes, that is true. But think... could it be that indirectly good may have come from the HK
posts, that by searching to expose "his heresies," we have been brought to study issues and
subjects that themselves are filled with relevance to the spiritual conflict that is in progress
in this world. And in this process of study we may be spiritually enriched when we see the
issues in the true light of the inspiration of His word.
Andrew |
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Harold Kupp
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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"Ronald R. Walker, M.D."
| Quote: |
It is interesting that he has stated "Since many of the recent quotes
from Mrs. White have put Ronald in the untenable position of
contradicting Mrs. White ...", especially, when I have posted recent,
extensive articles showing how Harold Kupp has repeatedly misinterpreted
the writings of EGW!
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Heb 10:26-27
For if we sin WILFULLY after that we have received
the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more
sacrifice for sins,
Mrs White distinguished between mistakes and willful
transgression of the commandments. Ronald Walker does
not. The following quote mentions both willful sin and
mistakes (not willful) in the same passage and shows
they are different.
EGW
If one who daily communes with God ERRS from the path, if
he turns a moment from looking steadfastly unto Jesus, it is not
because he SINS WILLFULLY; for when he sees his
MISTAKE, he turns again, and fastens his eyes
upon Jesus, and the fact that he has ERRED does not make
him less dear to the heart of God. He knows that he has
communion with the Saviour; and when reproved for his
MISTAKE in some matter of judgment, he does not
walk sullenly, and complain of God, but turns the MISTAKE
into a victory.
{FLB 118.3}
Each of the folowing comments by Mrs White are
in reference to mistakes or errors as opposed to
willful (presumptuous) sin. Ronald Walker would
have you believe she is lumping both willful sin
and mistakes together and calling them sin. That is
a lie...
EGW: [mistakes]
| Quote: | Even those who are striving in sincerity to keep the law of God, are not
always free from sin. {ST April 30, 1896}
and...
The apostle [Paul] draws a sharp distinction between the condition of
the avowed transgressor, who dares to live in defiance of God's law, and
yet make claim to holiness, [i.e. "I commit no sin"] and the condition
of him who, tho yielding his heart to the claims of the law of God,
still sees defects in his character, and bows in humility before God to
make confession of [mistakes] sin. {ST, April 30, 1896 par. 6}
and...
There are those who have known the pardoning love of Christ and who
really desire to be children of God, yet they realize that their
character is imperfect, their life faulty, and they are ready to doubt
whether their hearts have been renewed by the Holy Spirit. To such I
would say, Do not draw back in despair. We shall OFTEN have to bow down
and weep at the feet of Jesus because of our shortcomings and **MISTAKES,**
but we are not to be discouraged. Even if we are overcome by the enemy,
we are not cast off, not forsaken and rejected of God. No; Christ is at
the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. {SC 64.1}
--
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In sharp contrast EGW writes about WILFULL SIN in
the following quotes.
If the previous quotes in which EGW used the word
sin were speaking of WILFULL sin then the following quotes
from EGW would be contradicting herself.
EGW
"Whosoever"--minister or layman, wise or ignorant--"shall
break ONE of these least commandments"--WILFULLY or
presumptuously, as did Adam and Eve--is included in the
condemnation.
EGW
But let none deceive themselves with the belief that God will
accept and bless them while they are WILFULLY violating one of
his requirements. The commission of a known sin silences the
witnessing voice of the Spirit, and separates the soul from
God. Jesus cannot abide in the heart that disregards the divine
law. {4SP 299.2}
EGW
"Whoso abideth in him sinneth not," that is, does not
WILLFULLY transgress the law of God; for "sin is the transgression
of the law." ....John says, "Let no man deceive you; he that
doeth righteousness [keeps the commandments of God] is
righteous, even as He is righteous. He that committeth sin
[transgresses the law] is of the devil." God has placed the
transgressor of the law in the ranks of the powers of darkness,
in the company of the first great apostate . {ST, April 30,
1896 par. 4}
EGW
We must have a knowledge of the Scriptures that....we may
exhort one another to faithfulness, piety, and holiness. "For
if we sin WILLFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of
the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Here is a
most solemn statement, and one which should **often be
presented to souls,** to show them the danger of entering into
sin after they have received a knowledge of the truth of God.
We would warn men and women off this ground. All would do
well to remember, when tempted to leave the straight path of
right, that those who, having received a knowledge of the
truth, apostatize, "sin WILFULLY," transgress the law of God
("for sin is the transgression of the law"),--for such there
remaineth no more a sacrifice for sin. {RH, July 31, 1888 par.
6}
EGW
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin,"--break the
law of Jehovah. If a man is born of God, he will respect the
principles of the divine government, and will not WILFULLY
transgress the law of God in thought, or word, or action. {ST,
April 30, 1896 par. 1}
Any honest person who is NOT trying to defend willful sin
in the Christian can easily see the Mrs White carefully
distinguished between willful sin and sins done in error
(mistakes). Mistakes are forgiven upon repentence - for
those who sin willfully "there remaineth no more a sacrifice
for sin".
HK |
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Andrew
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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"Harold Kupp" wrote:
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- for those who sin willfully "there remaineth no more a sacrifice
for sin".
HK
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Does this mean that you publicly acknowledge that you are in fact
lost? |
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Ronald R. Walker, M.D.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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Dear Andrew:
Yes, you are correct, Andrew. This is the main reason that I have taken the time recently to address the issues raised. It will probably not change the heresies posted by Harold Kupp, since he is a blind guide who refuses to realize how truly blind he is, but it will insure that newcomers to ARCA will not be led astray by his heresies or think that, since Harold Kupp is posting his heresies on an SDA NG, that those heresies are condoned by SDA's.
?????? ???st?? ??s??,
Ron R. Walker, M.D. |
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Ronald R. Walker, M.D.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Now is your chance Ronald... |
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Dear Andrew:
What is most concerning about Harold Kupp is that Christ Jesus said, and it is written:
"Do not judge lest you be judged; for with what judgement you judge you will be judged, and with what measure you measure it will be measured to you." (Matthew 7:1-2)
Harold Kupp may well be judged, not by the measure of God's love and compassion, but by the measure of Harold Kupp's own hate and unmercifulness.
?????? ???st?? ??s??,
Ron R. Walker, M.D. |
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