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duke
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:29:23 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: |
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s2rp84dbe0aut5mo9ihj27m5se7u2qu84b@4ax.com...
***Betting with the RCs on anything would mean losin our salvation.
But betting with the RCC on the Papacy, unleavened bread, original sin and
the
schismatic OEC would greatly improve your salvation odds.
***Sorry. The heresies of Rome would be my fall.
|
Which heresies would that be, as separate from the EOC's, of course?
| Quote: | ***BTW, are you RCs still trying to promote Mary as co-redeemer with Christ?
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Rejected long ago.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:53:51 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: |
"bam" <mcca5blah@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7J6jk.8977$US3.260@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:89170eb5-fe3b-4afd-8511-dd43ab84aedf@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
I would bet it has NOTHING to do with your church of Rome!
Who is your leader? Or are you, like the Protestants, a New Testament
prophet that answers to God alone?
BAM
***Our "leader" has always been, from the beginning, Jesus Christ. He has
not failed us yet. And it's apparent that the Roman Catholics don't need the
pope except as a titular head. In the U.S. RC bishops, priests, and the
people do as they please, Vatican be damned.
|
Hey, al, if we don't need the Pope, why do you guys need patriarchies?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:46:31 -0700 (PDT), "Digimortal@starpower.net"
<Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Christ. We have no need to answer to a man.
|
Heeheeheeheehee.
| Quote: | bam wrote:
Who is your leader? Or are you, like the Protestants, a New Testament
prophet that answers to God alone?
BAM
|
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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AGGreen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mpdr84tv98iep3cmjs49k3ssqo4u3rd8hh@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:29:23 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s2rp84dbe0aut5mo9ihj27m5se7u2qu84b@4ax.com...
***Betting with the RCs on anything would mean losin our salvation.
But betting with the RCC on the Papacy, unleavened bread, original sin
and
the
schismatic OEC would greatly improve your salvation odds.
***Sorry. The heresies of Rome would be my fall.
Which heresies would that be, as separate from the EOC's, of course?
|
***So, you change the rules and the EOC doesn't follow suit. The EOC,
adhering to the truths once accepted by Rome, is in heresy? Please say
something intelligent for once. |
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AGGreen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:nudr84hdrn5ea4i0e6homkitivmkhi1urr@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:53:51 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
"bam" <mcca5blah@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:7J6jk.8977$US3.260@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:89170eb5-fe3b-4afd-8511-dd43ab84aedf@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
I would bet it has NOTHING to do with your church of Rome!
Who is your leader? Or are you, like the Protestants, a New Testament
prophet that answers to God alone?
BAM
***Our "leader" has always been, from the beginning, Jesus Christ. He has
not failed us yet. And it's apparent that the Roman Catholics don't need
the
pope except as a titular head. In the U.S. RC bishops, priests, and the
people do as they please, Vatican be damned.
Hey, al, if we don't need the Pope, why do you guys need patriarchies?
|
***Patriarchates are just ethnic divisions. Rome was once an Orthodox
patriarchate. Patriarchs and bishops serve the same function as they do in
your Eastern Rite Roman Catholic churches. Didn't you know that there is,
for instance, a Roman Catholic patriarch of Jerusalem?
***In your effort to denigrate the EOC, you denigrate the same things that
are present in the RCC. You sure do like to travel down slippery slopes.
Al |
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AGGreen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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***But, I've read that as vicar of Christ, the pope is actually Christ on
earth!!! (So much for the Second Coming.)
<Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:8762ac8e-e232-49e7-97c7-8b7233739ba1@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Christ. We have no need to answer to a man.
bam wrote:
Who is your leader? Or are you, like the Protestants, a New Testament
prophet that answers to God alone?
BAM |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:22:34 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: | Hey, al, if we don't need the Pope, why do you guys need patriarchies?
***Patriarchates are just ethnic divisions. Rome was once an Orthodox
patriarchate. Patriarchs and bishops serve the same function as they do in
your Eastern Rite Roman Catholic churches. Didn't you know that there is,
for instance, a Roman Catholic patriarch of Jerusalem?
|
Wrong answer, al. Are you telling me that the problem in the EOC is one of
ethnic division? Of country origin? Of course, I can't say I'm surprised. So
the Greeks won't talk to the Turks who won't talk to the Romanians, etc
So either each one of your ethnic division moves in, and is free to move in, a
different direction. The purpose of a single leader is to command one direction
for all. That's that the Pope does.
| Quote: | ***In your effort to denigrate the EOC, you denigrate the same things that
are present in the RCC. You sure do like to travel down slippery slopes.
|
Making my point for the need for the single Holy Father is exactly what I was
looking to get out of you.
It's called a pyramid structure. It's a classical management technique.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:19:52 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: |
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mpdr84tv98iep3cmjs49k3ssqo4u3rd8hh@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:29:23 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s2rp84dbe0aut5mo9ihj27m5se7u2qu84b@4ax.com...
***Betting with the RCs on anything would mean losin our salvation.
But betting with the RCC on the Papacy, unleavened bread, original sin
and
the
schismatic OEC would greatly improve your salvation odds.
***Sorry. The heresies of Rome would be my fall.
Which heresies would that be, as separate from the EOC's, of course?
***So, you change the rules and the EOC doesn't follow suit. The EOC,
adhering to the truths once accepted by Rome, is in heresy? Please say
something intelligent for once.
|
No, you guys simply have to accept the following:
1. The schism from the Church that Christ founded over the Papacy.
2. Unleavened bread for the Holy Eucharist.
3. No original sin.
4. No purgatory.
All of these are in scripture, al. I've already pointed them out to you.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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AGGreen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:09 am Post subject: Re: Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:8vtr84lvq1jfkcb1pi2fgjbs30dunfv0o1@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:19:52 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mpdr84tv98iep3cmjs49k3ssqo4u3rd8hh@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:29:23 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s2rp84dbe0aut5mo9ihj27m5se7u2qu84b@4ax.com...
***Betting with the RCs on anything would mean losin our salvation.
But betting with the RCC on the Papacy, unleavened bread, original sin
and
the
schismatic OEC would greatly improve your salvation odds.
***Sorry. The heresies of Rome would be my fall.
Which heresies would that be, as separate from the EOC's, of course?
***So, you change the rules and the EOC doesn't follow suit. The EOC,
adhering to the truths once accepted by Rome, is in heresy? Please say
something intelligent for once.
No, you guys simply have to accept the following:
1. The schism from the Church that Christ founded over the Papacy.
2. Unleavened bread for the Holy Eucharist.
3. No original sin.
4. No purgatory.
All of these are in scripture, al. I've already pointed them out to you.
|
***Yeah, and the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses prove all of their beliefs
and tenets with scripture. LOL!
***"WE" don't have to accept any heresy from any other religious belief
system. |
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AGGreen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: Re: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:46tr849b8co84vvtnobuo8cufuhm28su4t@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:22:34 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
Hey, al, if we don't need the Pope, why do you guys need patriarchies?
***Patriarchates are just ethnic divisions. Rome was once an Orthodox
patriarchate. Patriarchs and bishops serve the same function as they do in
your Eastern Rite Roman Catholic churches. Didn't you know that there is,
for instance, a Roman Catholic patriarch of Jerusalem?
Wrong answer, al. Are you telling me that the problem in the EOC is one
of
ethnic division?
|
***There is no EOC problem except in demented minds.
Of country origin? Of course, I can't say I'm surprised. So
| Quote: | the Greeks won't talk to the Turks who won't talk to the Romanians, etc.
|
***Actually, they talk more than you think.
| Quote: |
So either each one of your ethnic division moves in, and is free to move
in, a
different direction. The purpose of a single leader is to command one
direction
for all. That's that the Pope does.
|
***and the bishops and people do pretty much what they damn well please
anyway!! LOL!
***But know that the theology and dogma of all of the Orthodox jurisdictions
are exactly the same. and this is what holds us together. the "ethnic
divisions" are little more than administrative and autonomous units. It has
worked very well for 2,000 years.
| Quote: |
***In your effort to denigrate the EOC, you denigrate the same things that
are present in the RCC. You sure do like to travel down slippery slopes.
Making my point for the need for the single Holy Father is exactly what I
was
looking to get out of you.
|
***But I don't believe that a single holy father does much for you guys
either, let alone me. I have no need for a "top dog" pope.
| Quote: |
It's called a pyramid structure. It's a classical management technique.
|
***And for the EOC, the pyramid structure is evicent in every Eastern
Orthodox jurisdiction. Works really good. |
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athair ambrois
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Jul 30, 12:29 am, "AGGreen" <A...@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: | Al, al, al, don't you see why your problems are caused by lack of a top to
the
pyramid?
***Duke, Duke, Duke, don't you see why your problems with altar boy buggery
is caused by an ineffective man at the top of your pyramid???
|
I think you could have a point there, Al. Ther attitude of the
Vatican to the American scandals under Pope John Paul and Cardinal
Ratzinger was a major concern. |
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athair ambrois
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Jul 30, 12:29 am, "AGGreen" <A...@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: | . Is there no defender
of Roman Catholicism available who has more knowledge of the RCC?
|
Liam does an excellent job of presenting the Roman Catholic viewpoint
but apart from him I think that all the Catholics have fled the Forum
and left it to Duke. |
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athair ambrois
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Jul 29, 11:51 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Al, al, al, don't you see why your problems are caused by lack of a top to the
pyramid? Your Church is like little countries - ethnic gets in the way of
religion. You carry the pyramid to the patriarch level only and then drop it.
What is the EOC fear of the final step, al?
|
The pyramis structure of the Roman Church has proved a major disaster
for unity! Let's look at history through RC spectacles.....
1. The papacy was unable to maintain unity with the Churches of
Egypt and Armenia, Syria etc., in the sixth century. The Vatican has
now admitted that it made a gross mistake with the theology of these
Churches and the only problem was simply one of semantics.
However the result was that the papacy caused a major schism and
millions of Catholics were thrown out of the Church unjustly by the
Pope.
2. 500 years later, the papacy made significant blunders again, with
the rwst of the Catholic Churches of the East (the one which are now
Orthodox.) Because of, let's be frank, the arrogance of the man at
the top of the pyramid, millions of Catholics were cast out into
schism. The Orthodox Church was born.
3. Another 500 years, and we find that the corruption of the papal
pyramid causes the Protestant Reformation and again, the loss to the
Pope and the Catholic Church of millions of Catholics.
So we see that there have been three major splits in the Catholic
Church - all caused by the Pope and your pyramidal structure.
You lost the Copts and the other Oriental Churches - through papal
ignorance of theology.
You lost the Greeks and the other Eastern Orthodox - through papal
arrogance
You lost the Protestants and many European countries - through papal
corruption.
On the whole, the papacy and the pyramidal structure have been quite a
catastrophe for the unity of your Church. History shows that looking
upon the papacy as a unifying force is a bit of wild imagining. |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Hey, algreen - Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:14:27 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: |
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:46tr849b8co84vvtnobuo8cufuhm28su4t@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:22:34 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
Hey, al, if we don't need the Pope, why do you guys need patriarchies?
***Patriarchates are just ethnic divisions. Rome was once an Orthodox
patriarchate. Patriarchs and bishops serve the same function as they do in
your Eastern Rite Roman Catholic churches. Didn't you know that there is,
for instance, a Roman Catholic patriarch of Jerusalem?
Wrong answer, al. Are you telling me that the problem in the EOC is one
of ethnic division?
***There is no EOC problem except in demented minds.
|
Lots of those in the EOC?
| Quote: | Of country origin? Of course, I can't say I'm surprised. So
the Greeks won't talk to the Turks who won't talk to the Romanians, etc.
***Actually, they talk more than you think.
|
But why ethnic, al? Because, al.....................they are all different
little countries (ethnic considerations) that don't like each other???
| Quote: | So either each one of your ethnic division moves in, and is free to move
in, a different direction. The purpose of a single leader is to command one
direction for all. That's that the Pope does.
***and the bishops and people do pretty much what they damn well please
anyway!! LOL!
|
Al, al, al, don't you see why your problems are caused by lack of a top to the
pyramid? Your Church is like little countries - ethnic gets in the way of
religion. You carry the pyramid to the patriarch level only and then drop it.
What is the EOC fear of the final step, al?
| Quote: | ***But know that the theology and dogma of all of the Orthodox jurisdictions
are exactly the same. and this is what holds us together. the "ethnic
divisions" are little more than administrative and autonomous units. It has
worked very well for 2,000 years.
|
Yet you're scared to death of a central figure. Not so the RCC - we have the
Holy Father assigned by Christ.
| Quote: | ***In your effort to denigrate the EOC, you denigrate the same things that
are present in the RCC. You sure do like to travel down slippery slopes.
Making my point for the need for the single Holy Father is exactly what I
was looking to get out of you.
***But I don't believe that a single holy father does much for you guys
either, let alone me. I have no need for a "top dog" pope.
|
Then why do you have need for a local & regional "boss" but no big boss?
| Quote: | It's called a pyramid structure. It's a classical management technique.
***And for the EOC, the pyramid structure is evicent in every Eastern
Orthodox jurisdiction. Works really good.
|
Yeah, real well. I can just see a Greek telling a Turk patriarchate that they
must use unleavened bread for the Eucharist at all times. Talk about a
revolution. The bread bakers would go ballistic.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Papism as the Oldest Protestantism |
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:09:46 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
| Quote: |
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:8vtr84lvq1jfkcb1pi2fgjbs30dunfv0o1@4ax.com...
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:19:52 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:mpdr84tv98iep3cmjs49k3ssqo4u3rd8hh@4ax.com...
On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:29:23 -0400, "AGGreen" <AGG@spambot.tv> wrote:
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:s2rp84dbe0aut5mo9ihj27m5se7u2qu84b@4ax.com...
***Betting with the RCs on anything would mean losin our salvation.
But betting with the RCC on the Papacy, unleavened bread, original sin
and
the
schismatic OEC would greatly improve your salvation odds.
***Sorry. The heresies of Rome would be my fall.
Which heresies would that be, as separate from the EOC's, of course?
***So, you change the rules and the EOC doesn't follow suit. The EOC,
adhering to the truths once accepted by Rome, is in heresy? Please say
something intelligent for once.
No, you guys simply have to accept the following:
1. The schism from the Church that Christ founded over the Papacy.
2. Unleavened bread for the Holy Eucharist.
3. No original sin.
4. No purgatory.
All of these are in scripture, al. I've already pointed them out to you.
***Yeah, and the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses prove all of their beliefs
and tenets with scripture. LOL!
|
Actually, they don't, al. They believe Jesus is just a man.
| Quote: | ***"WE" don't have to accept any heresy from any other religious belief
system.
|
Your concept of "heresy" comes from God.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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