www.evangelicalview.com

Leading Religious,
News and information


Part of the Identityscape.com network...

getxfactor.com jmoodmusic.com smartbusinesschoices.com mintdepot.com lowfaresalways.com evangelicalview.com shoppingpodder.com soproudlywehail.com webnews.ws currenthumor.com

 

 

Papism as the Oldest Protestantism
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 43, 44, 45  Next
   Evangelical Views - the Best of UseNet Religious Postings! Forum Index -> Christian Orthodox Forum  
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AGGreen
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

<Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:5a00eec4-c456-4759-9414-7f529a352a96@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Don't confuse Duckbrain, he has proven he is too confused already!
LOL!

•R. L. Measures wrote:
He cancelled the resurrection?


***I think Duke is referring to the Partial Judgment at the time of our
death...quite apart from the Final Judgment.
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article <g8u8l401n2g@enews2.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
<AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Quote:
".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2408081638380001@r-ls-mac-mini...
In article <4sm3b41fflp054kln78hfvqvqfm2r1cuui@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:39:25 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L. Measures) wrote:

In article <9lota41ceuinfv56a02tkk91j4bak81ji3@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:19:21 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L. Measures)
wrote:

In article <mlmqa4l2vi9k3rcqk1omlrfvdcvl5ak5hg@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:23:32 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L. Measures)
wrote:

In article <2a3oa4h6to0879tacrdds88gaj2s6l3v5h@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:56:04 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures) wrote:

In article <l3dla45miomf2lqvm8flcls886g9nfgqag@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:43:53 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures) wrote:

It's hard to not be TrueBlueRomanCathoic when you
belong to the
Church started by Christ.

. Agreed. It for sure wan't started by the guy who
called
himself the
Son of man.

But it sure was started by the man that God called his
Son.

. hook, line, and sinker.

??? I stick by my answer.

. does RC inculcation work or what?

Truth doesn't need inculcation.

. which is why the one true church uses it.

That's right. Truth is what you get from the RCC.

. If the truth doesn't need it, why does the one true church employ
inculcation -- a.k.a. catechism, a.k.a. Confraternity of Christian
Doctrine. ?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a summary of what the Holy
Scripture,
Holy Tradition, and History reveal. No inculcation involved.

. In Catechism class there is no provision for the student to think.

Then you should have come to mine.

. thinking outside the box is forbidden


***Usually when an Orthodox or RC think outside the box, they find that the
issue in question was settled long ago.

** "The Church says that the world is flat but I know that it is round
for have seen its shadow on the moon and I have more faith in a shadow
than in the Church."
-- Ferdinand Magellan (1480?-1521)

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article <tto5b41mhp2gknhjpev5dhkjijcq3n8a1l@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:30:58 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

In article <am65b4lkvisaocsocf5cjnf0mkpp9uml26@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:38:38 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

In article <4sm3b41fflp054kln78hfvqvqfm2r1cuui@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:39:25 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

In article <9lota41ceuinfv56a02tkk91j4bak81ji3@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:19:21 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L.
Measures) wrote:

In article <mlmqa4l2vi9k3rcqk1omlrfvdcvl5ak5hg@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:23:32 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L.
Measures) wrote:

In article <2a3oa4h6to0879tacrdds88gaj2s6l3v5h@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:56:04 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L.
Measures) wrote:

In article <l3dla45miomf2lqvm8flcls886g9nfgqag@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:43:53 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L.
Measures) wrote:

It's hard to not be TrueBlueRomanCathoic when you
belong to the
Church started by Christ.

• Agreed. It for sure wan't started by the guy
who called
himself the
Son of man.

But it sure was started by the man that God called
his Son.

• hook, line, and sinker.

??? I stick by my answer.

• does RC inculcation work or what?

Truth doesn't need inculcation.

• which is why the one true church uses it.

That's right. Truth is what you get from the RCC.

• If the truth doesn't need it, why does the one true church employ
inculcation -- a.k.a. catechism, a.k.a. Confraternity of Christian
Doctrine. ?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a summary of what the Holy
Scripture,
Holy Tradition, and History reveal. No inculcation involved.

• In Catechism class there is no provision for the student to think.

Then you should have come to mine.

• thinking outside the box is forbidden

No, it's not to the Church. But God will let you know what he thinks
at the
moment you die.

• He cancelled the resurrection?

If you're judged unfit, you don't have a resurrection coming.

• So the book of Revelation is wrong. Damn!


--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article <30p5b4l4a8555bptf8jsonql6cbdkm7ptm@4ax.com>, duke
<duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 05:31:58 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

In article <bo65b4dqn4n8vp1jcn48bhpu31bbvhov64@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:40:33 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

In article <stm3b4dtpt4r49rtspdigvmkof623i3ejc@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:53:53 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

In article <trota4lll8g4aj8bp7tb8d07qj4l3mn2ds@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:03:31 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L.
Measures) wrote:

In article <g8l2jd0sl8@enews1.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

***I see Duke is still revealing all that he doesn't know! LOL!

** AG - - - - This is a worrysone change since El Duko previously
acknowledged that over 4300 of the infallible church's priests
had been
charged with plugging into altar-boy butts.

No change. I've always quoted 800. All you need to do is review the
John Jay
report.

• Court records show 4309. Around 20-yrs before the pedophile priest
scandal broke in 2002, Fr. Andrew Greely estimated that there
were c. 4000
pedophile priests in the U. S. Congrats Fr. Greeley.

Only 800 were pedophiles.

• What is the difference between an ephebophile and a pedophile?

Age, and the point of reason and mutual consent.

• What age?

13 I think for ep vs pe. For age of reason, probably on the order of 10
or so.

• A 10-yr old boy giving his consent to be sodomized?


--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article
<5a00eec4-c456-4759-9414-7f529a352a96@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
"Digimortal@starpower.net" <Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote:

Quote:
Don't confuse Duckbrain, he has proven he is too confused already!
LOL!

** alas
Quote:

=95R. L. Measures wrote:
He cancelled the resurrection?

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article <g8v257020kc@enews1.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
<AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Quote:
Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:5a00eec4-c456-4759-9414-7f529a352a96@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Don't confuse Duckbrain, he has proven he is too confused already!
LOL!

•R. L. Measures wrote:
He cancelled the resurrection?


***I think Duke is referring to the Partial Judgment at the time of our
death...quite apart from the Final Judgment.

• I'd rather have an impartial judgement thank you.

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
AGGreen
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2508081430560001@r-ls-mac-mini...
Quote:
In article <g8u8l401n2g@enews2.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2408081638380001@r-ls-mac-mini...
In article <4sm3b41fflp054kln78hfvqvqfm2r1cuui@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:39:25 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L. Measures)
wrote:

In article <9lota41ceuinfv56a02tkk91j4bak81ji3@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:19:21 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L. Measures)
wrote:

In article <mlmqa4l2vi9k3rcqk1omlrfvdcvl5ak5hg@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:23:32 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures)
wrote:

In article <2a3oa4h6to0879tacrdds88gaj2s6l3v5h@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:56:04 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures) wrote:

In article <l3dla45miomf2lqvm8flcls886g9nfgqag@4ax.com>,
duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:43:53 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures) wrote:

It's hard to not be TrueBlueRomanCathoic when you
belong to the
Church started by Christ.

. Agreed. It for sure wan't started by the guy who
called
himself the
Son of man.

But it sure was started by the man that God called his
Son.

. hook, line, and sinker.

??? I stick by my answer.

. does RC inculcation work or what?

Truth doesn't need inculcation.

. which is why the one true church uses it.

That's right. Truth is what you get from the RCC.

. If the truth doesn't need it, why does the one true church
employ
inculcation -- a.k.a. catechism, a.k.a. Confraternity of Christian
Doctrine. ?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a summary of what the Holy
Scripture,
Holy Tradition, and History reveal. No inculcation involved.

. In Catechism class there is no provision for the student to think.

Then you should have come to mine.

. thinking outside the box is forbidden


***Usually when an Orthodox or RC think outside the box, they find that
the
issue in question was settled long ago.

** "The Church says that the world is flat but I know that it is round
for have seen its shadow on the moon and I have more faith in a shadow
than in the Church."
-- Ferdinand Magellan (1480?-1521)



***Theological questions and geographic questions cannot be mixed for the
sake of an analogy. It's the old apples-oranges thingy.
Back to top
AGGreen
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2508081436140001@r-ls-mac-mini...
Quote:
In article <g8v257020kc@enews1.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:5a00eec4-c456-4759-9414-7f529a352a96@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Don't confuse Duckbrain, he has proven he is too confused already!
LOL!

.R. L. Measures wrote:
He cancelled the resurrection?


***I think Duke is referring to the Partial Judgment at the time of our
death...quite apart from the Final Judgment.

. I'd rather have an impartial judgement thank you.


***Since you have no idea what is being referred to, you come off sounding
as stupide as Duke. The partial and final judgments are theologically sound.
Back to top
AGGreen
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2508081432330001@r-ls-mac-mini...

Quote:

If you're judged unfit, you don't have a resurrection coming.

. So the book of Revelation is wrong. Damn!


***No one has figured out with certainty just what all the babble in the
Apocalypse of John is all about. It's one reason why the Eastern bishops
argued against including it in the Canon of the New Testament in the 4th
century (the Latin reps argued against including the Book of Hebrews because
its author is not known for sure).
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article <g8vg3v02ct0@enews2.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
<AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Quote:
".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2508081430560001@r-ls-mac-mini...
In article <g8u8l401n2g@enews2.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2408081638380001@r-ls-mac-mini...
In article <4sm3b41fflp054kln78hfvqvqfm2r1cuui@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:39:25 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L. Measures)
wrote:

In article <9lota41ceuinfv56a02tkk91j4bak81ji3@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:19:21 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L. Measures)
wrote:

In article <mlmqa4l2vi9k3rcqk1omlrfvdcvl5ak5hg@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:23:32 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures)
wrote:

In article <2a3oa4h6to0879tacrdds88gaj2s6l3v5h@4ax.com>, duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:56:04 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures) wrote:

In article <l3dla45miomf2lqvm8flcls886g9nfgqag@4ax.com>,
duke
duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:43:53 -0700, r@somis.org (.R. L.
Measures) wrote:

It's hard to not be TrueBlueRomanCathoic when you
belong to the
Church started by Christ.

. Agreed. It for sure wan't started by the guy who
called
himself the
Son of man.

But it sure was started by the man that God called his
Son.

. hook, line, and sinker.

??? I stick by my answer.

. does RC inculcation work or what?

Truth doesn't need inculcation.

. which is why the one true church uses it.

That's right. Truth is what you get from the RCC.

. If the truth doesn't need it, why does the one true church
employ
inculcation -- a.k.a. catechism, a.k.a. Confraternity of Christian
Doctrine. ?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a summary of what the Holy
Scripture,
Holy Tradition, and History reveal. No inculcation involved.

. In Catechism class there is no provision for the student to think.

Then you should have come to mine.

. thinking outside the box is forbidden


***Usually when an Orthodox or RC think outside the box, they find that
the
issue in question was settled long ago.

** "The Church says that the world is flat but I know that it is round
for have seen its shadow on the moon and I have more faith in a shadow
than in the Church."
-- Ferdinand Magellan (1480?-1521)



***Theological questions and geographic questions cannot be mixed for the
sake of an analogy. It's the old apples-oranges thingy.

** As I see it, those who are obviously wrong about simple geographical
facts are somewhat unlikely to be correct about more complex matters.

- "I know that most men, including those who are at ease with problems of
the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they had delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they had proudly taught to others, and which they had woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives."
- L. Tolstoy

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article <g8vg6302d01@enews2.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
<AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Quote:
".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2508081436140001@r-ls-mac-mini...
In article <g8v257020kc@enews1.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:5a00eec4-c456-4759-9414-7f529a352a96@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Don't confuse Duckbrain, he has proven he is too confused already!
LOL!

.R. L. Measures wrote:
He cancelled the resurrection?


***I think Duke is referring to the Partial Judgment at the time of our
death...quite apart from the Final Judgment.

. I'd rather have an impartial judgement thank you.


***Since you have no idea what is being referred to, you come off sounding
as stupide as Duke. The partial and final judgments are theologically sound.

** "Stupide is as stupide does."

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
•R. L. Measures
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

In article <g8vgck02d5e@enews2.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
<AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Quote:
".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2508081432330001@r-ls-mac-mini...


If you're judged unfit, you don't have a resurrection coming.

. So the book of Revelation is wrong. Damn!


***No one has figured out with certainty just what all the babble in the
Apocalypse of John is all about. It's one reason why the Eastern bishops
argued against including it in the Canon of the New Testament in the 4th
century (the Latin reps argued against including the Book of Hebrews because
its author is not known for sure).

** Do you believe that the Disciple Matthew wrote the book of Matthew,
and that the Disciple John wrote the book of John?

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
Back to top
Digimortal@starpower.net
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

We all die and then the resurrection and then the judgement...THAT is
biblical. the rest is BS...like "purgatory".

On Aug 26, 12:07 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
Quote:
Particular Judgment
Dogma of particular judgment
The Catholic doctrine of the particular judgment is this: that immediately after
death the eternal destiny of each separated soul is decided by the just judgment
of God. Although there has been no formal definition on this point, the dogma is
clearly implied in the Union Decree of Eugene IV (1439), which declares that
souls leaving their bodies in a state of grace, but in need of purification are
cleansed in Purgatory, whereas souls that are perfectly pure are at once
admitted to the beatific vision of the Godhead (ipsum Deum unum et trinum) and
those who depart in actual mortal sin, or merely with original sin, are at once
consigned to eternal punishment, the quality of which corresponds to their sin
(paenis tamen disparibus).
Back to top
duke
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:35:31 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

Quote:
In article <g8vgck02d5e@enews2.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

".R. L. Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2508081432330001@r-ls-mac-mini...


If you're judged unfit, you don't have a resurrection coming.

. So the book of Revelation is wrong. Damn!


***No one has figured out with certainty just what all the babble in the
Apocalypse of John is all about. It's one reason why the Eastern bishops
argued against including it in the Canon of the New Testament in the 4th
century (the Latin reps argued against including the Book of Hebrews because
its author is not known for sure).

** Do you believe that the Disciple Matthew wrote the book of Matthew,
and that the Disciple John wrote the book of John?

Doesn't matter.

duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Back to top
duke
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Duckbrain Reply with quote

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:36:14 -0700, r@somis.org (•R. L. Measures) wrote:

Quote:
In article <g8v257020kc@enews1.newsguy.com>, "AGGreen"
AGGreen@not_the_imposter.edu> wrote:

Digimortal@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:5a00eec4-c456-4759-9414-7f529a352a96@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Don't confuse Duckbrain, he has proven he is too confused already!
LOL!

•R. L. Measures wrote:
He cancelled the resurrection?


***I think Duke is referring to the Partial Judgment at the time of our
death...quite apart from the Final Judgment.

• I'd rather have an impartial judgement thank you.

Particular Judgment
Dogma of particular judgment
The Catholic doctrine of the particular judgment is this: that immediately after
death the eternal destiny of each separated soul is decided by the just judgment
of God. Although there has been no formal definition on this point, the dogma is
clearly implied in the Union Decree of Eugene IV (1439), which declares that
souls leaving their bodies in a state of grace, but in need of purification are
cleansed in Purgatory, whereas souls that are perfectly pure are at once
admitted to the beatific vision of the Godhead (ipsum Deum unum et trinum) and
those who depart in actual mortal sin, or merely with original sin, are at once
consigned to eternal punishment, the quality of which corresponds to their sin
(paenis tamen disparibus).

duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
   Evangelical Views - the Best of UseNet Religious Postings! Forum Index -> Christian Orthodox Forum Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 43, 44, 45  Next  
Page 44 of 45
All times are GMT

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum