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(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
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 Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:43:06 -0400,
Bill Baker <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Gabriel <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
|
[ ... ]
| Quote: | ... we can continue.
Let's see if you can answer this Bible quiz. No one has been able to
pass it yet, but maybe you will be the exception!
http://exchristian.net/3
|
NEAT site!!!!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Contradictions in The Bible...
<http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
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(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
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|
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:33:44 -0400,
"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome
Agendas: Extinction!"<xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
: (1) According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about
bearing his own witness?
If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true. (John 5:3 1)
Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true. (John 8:14)
As usual, people look at two isolated phrases that seem to say
opposite things, and don't look at what was said before it and
after it to see what is really being said. Let's take a closer
look at the context around it so we can see what's being said:
John 5:18 KJVR Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him,
because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that
God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
So in response to them wanting to kill him for saying that God
was his father, Jesus responds with many things, including the
verse you're referring to:
Jesus said,
John 5:31-34 KJVR If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not
true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I
know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33 Ye
sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I
receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye
might be saved.
Jesus is pointing out that according to their ways, there frail
human ways of trying to accept man's testimony being accepted on
the testimony alone, that If "I bear witness of myself, my
witness is not true". This is their way of supposedly
establishing truth, given that so many are slaves to sin and lie.
So showing their hopeless method of establishing truth, a method
that God does not need (v34). So to give them what they "need":
to have their frail human method met, Jesus points out (v33) that
John bares Him witness.
Now compare this with John 8:14, which Jesus is now making much
more of a reference to Him really being the son of God:
John 8:13-18 KJVR The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou
bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. 14 Jesus
answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet
my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go;
but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. 15 Ye judge
after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my
judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that
sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony
of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself,
and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
So again (v13) they are repeating their human method by pointing
out how Jesus is only bearing witness of Himself, which makes His
witness not true. Jesus responds at first in actual truth,
ignoring their frail human version of truth, being the son of God
He boldly claims "Although I bear record of myself, yet my record
is true" - claiming that although in their human frail way of
establishing truth, Jesus' testimony is true because He is the
son of God, and as such He is unique in not needing another
witness to satisfy man's weak version of establishing truth
amongst so many sinners (liars).
As Jesus says, they "judge after the flesh" - judge in mere human
ways. But He does finish up right there by repeating their human
ways of judging by pointing out, repeating what He also was
saying in (5:31) "It is also written *in your law* (not God's
law), that the testimony of two men is true" - so He *is*
rightfully repeating what He stated in John 5:31, which is their
mere human way of judging truth.
And finally using their frail human logic, but now repeating that
Jesus, being the Son of God, is true on His own testimony: Jesus
points to God this time as his second witness, not mentioning
John at all. This time Jesus is appealing directly to the fact
that He is the son of God, and that's why what He says is truth
and has no need for this weak human method of trying to determine
truth by only someone's testimony.
So as you can see Jesus is pointing out the same thing in both
cases: their human law of nothing being true unless there be two
witnesses. But the second time Jesus is bolding showing how He
alone does not need the witness of another to validate His
testimony, for as we know He is the Son of God. There was no
contradiction at all.
|
I'll accept this rationalization, but that leaves hundreds of
possible contradictions to go, some if which NO one will ever
be able to refute, because they are so clear-cut.
Like THESE, which deal with conflicts of NAMES and NUMBERS:
(1) God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years
of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
Three (I Chronicles 21:12)
(2) How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?
Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)
(3) How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
Eighteen (2 Kings 24:
Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Contradictions in The Bible...
<http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* |
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RedDog
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: Fuck the contradictions. Let's consider the Bible for its mo |
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On Jul 24, 3:40 pm, Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:03:12 GMT, "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) --
Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas: Extinction!"
xanadu2...@mchsi.com> wrote:
: On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:05:07 -0400,: "Gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail..com> wrote:
[ .. ]
: > So waiting for you to decide:
:
: >* you can be honest and admit the one I addressed was not a
: >contradiction at all as was clearly explained, and we can
: >continue to other supposed "contradictions", or
: >* you can point out exactly what is wrong with what I pointed
: >out, and we can go from there in clarifying that supposed
: >contradiction.
:
: As soon as I have finished considering ebverything you said
: about that one, I WILL let you know.
Then when you're done considering and will give a response on
this, and I quote you: "real contradiction that is clear-cut
that no one will ever be able to explain them away" in the list
you provided, we can continue.
|
LOL. ya know, Gabby boy, you're absolutely right! The Bible never does
contradict the fact that your God is a lustful and bloodthirsty
asshole!  ..... For example:
"On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every
firstborn--both men and animals--and I will bring judgment on all the
gods of Egypt. I am the LORD." (Exodus 12:12)
"At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the
firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the
prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the
livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians
got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for
there was not a house without someone dead." (Exodus 12:29)
The LORD said to Moses, "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the
Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."So twelve
thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were
supplied from the clans of Israel. They fought against Midian, as the
LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man.
They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as
all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the
people and animals, Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of
the community went to meet them outside the camp.
Moses was angry with the officers of the army--the commanders of
thousands and commanders of hundreds--who returned from the battle.
"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were
the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning
the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a
plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every
woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who
has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31)
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through
the midst of Jerusalem....let not your eye spare, neither have ye
pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and
women...." (Ezekiel 9: 4-6)
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to
Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from
Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they
have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and
suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. (1Sam.15:2-3)
The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man
and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs. I said,
I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of
them to cease from among men (Deuteronomy 32:25)
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God:
they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
and their women with child shall be ripped up. (Hosea 13:16)
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the
voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they
have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father
and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of
his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the
elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will
not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men
of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou
put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
(Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his
father or mother, then his father and mother shall seize him and bring
him out to the elders of the city...then all the men of the city shall
stone him to death." Deut 21:18
"If anyone secretly entices you--even if it is your brother, your
father's son or your mother's son, or your own son or daughter, or the
wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend-- saying, "Let us go
worship other gods" you must not yield to or heed any such persons.
Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. But you shall
surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute
them, and then the hand of all the people. Stone them to death for
trying to turn you away from the Lord your God." Deut 13:6-10
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)
"A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him
who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" Jer 48:10
"I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with
your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with your
flowing blood..." Ez 32/ 5,6
"Therefore fathers shall eat their sons in the midst of you and sons
shall eat their fathers...I will send famine and wild beasts against
you and they shall rob you of your children; pestilence and blood
shall pass through you; and I will bring a sword upon you." Ez 5/
10,17
"Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare
and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and
maidens, little children and women..." Ez 9 / 5,6
"I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs; I will tear
open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild
beast would rend them." Hos 13:8
"I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they
could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in
making them offer by fire all their first born, that I might horrify
them; that they might know that I am the Lord. Ezekiel 20: 25-26
"...I will raise up evil against you out of your own house; I will
take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and
he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun." 2 Sam 12/ 11
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall
it be in the end of this world ... And shall cast them into a furnace
of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. ... And shall
cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and
gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13)
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast
them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or
maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into
everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast
it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye,
rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. (Matthew
18:8-9)
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
(Matthew 25:41)
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to
enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into
the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and
the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it
is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be
cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where
their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye
offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the
kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell
fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. For
every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be
salted with salt. (Mark 9:43-49)
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is
withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they
are burned. (John 15:6)
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured
out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be
tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels,
and in the presence of the Lamb. (Revelation 14:1)
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate
the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her
flesh, and burn her with fire. (Revelation 17:16)
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought
miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the
mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were
cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation
19:20)
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into
the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall
have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)
----------------------------------
Ya see, Gabby, we honest folk don't give a flying fuck whether your
Bible contains contradictions or not. We judge it on quite *other*
merits, and those other "merits" show the "god" you worship to be an
evil sadistic mother fucker. :-)
--
RedDog the Budweiser Troll
Atheist #e^(pi*i) |
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Greywolf
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Fuck the contradictions. Let's consider the Bible for it |
|
|
"RedDog" <capgun@budweiser.com> wrote in message
news:0d2771ae-1f0b-4a68-9a95-da288fc8bf7b@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 24, 3:40 pm, Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:03:12 GMT, "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) --
Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas: Extinction!"
xanadu2...@mchsi.com> wrote:
: On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:05:07 -0400,: "Gabriel"
gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[ .. ]
: > So waiting for you to decide:
:
: >* you can be honest and admit the one I addressed was not a
: >contradiction at all as was clearly explained, and we can
: >continue to other supposed "contradictions", or
: >* you can point out exactly what is wrong with what I pointed
: >out, and we can go from there in clarifying that supposed
: >contradiction.
:
: As soon as I have finished considering ebverything you said
: about that one, I WILL let you know.
Then when you're done considering and will give a response on
this, and I quote you: "real contradiction that is clear-cut
that no one will ever be able to explain them away" in the list
you provided, we can continue.
|
LOL. ya know, Gabby boy, you're absolutely right! The Bible never does
contradict the fact that your God is a lustful and bloodthirsty
asshole! ..... For example:
"On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every
firstborn--both men and animals--and I will bring judgment on all the
gods of Egypt. I am the LORD." (Exodus 12:12)
"At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the
firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the
prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the
livestock as well. Pharaoh and all his officials and all the Egyptians
got up during the night, and there was loud wailing in Egypt, for
there was not a house without someone dead." (Exodus 12:29)
The LORD said to Moses, "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the
Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."So twelve
thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were
supplied from the clans of Israel. They fought against Midian, as the
LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man.
They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as
all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the
people and animals, Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of
the community went to meet them outside the camp.
Moses was angry with the officers of the army--the commanders of
thousands and commanders of hundreds--who returned from the battle.
"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were
the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning
the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a
plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every
woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who
has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31)
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through
the midst of Jerusalem....let not your eye spare, neither have ye
pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and
women...." (Ezekiel 9: 4-6)
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to
Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from
Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they
have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and
suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. (1Sam.15:2-3)
The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man
and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs. I said,
I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of
them to cease from among men (Deuteronomy 32:25)
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God:
they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
and their women with child shall be ripped up. (Hosea 13:16)
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the
voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they
have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father
and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of
his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the
elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will
not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men
of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou
put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
(Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his
father or mother, then his father and mother shall seize him and bring
him out to the elders of the city...then all the men of the city shall
stone him to death." Deut 21:18
"If anyone secretly entices you--even if it is your brother, your
father's son or your mother's son, or your own son or daughter, or the
wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend-- saying, "Let us go
worship other gods" you must not yield to or heed any such persons.
Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. But you shall
surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute
them, and then the hand of all the people. Stone them to death for
trying to turn you away from the Lord your God." Deut 13:6-10
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)
"A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him
who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" Jer 48:10
"I will strew your flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with
your carcass. I will drench the land even to the mountains with your
flowing blood..." Ez 32/ 5,6
"Therefore fathers shall eat their sons in the midst of you and sons
shall eat their fathers...I will send famine and wild beasts against
you and they shall rob you of your children; pestilence and blood
shall pass through you; and I will bring a sword upon you." Ez 5/
10,17
"Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare
and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and
maidens, little children and women..." Ez 9 / 5,6
"I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs; I will tear
open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild
beast would rend them." Hos 13:8
"I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they
could not have life; and I defiled them through their very gifts in
making them offer by fire all their first born, that I might horrify
them; that they might know that I am the Lord. Ezekiel 20: 25-26
"...I will raise up evil against you out of your own house; I will
take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and
he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun." 2 Sam 12/ 11
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall
it be in the end of this world ... And shall cast them into a furnace
of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. ... And shall
cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and
gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13)
Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast
them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or
maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into
everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast
it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye,
rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. (Matthew
18:8-9)
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye
cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.
(Matthew 25:41)
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to
enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into
the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and
the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it
is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be
cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where
their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye
offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the
kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell
fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. For
every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be
salted with salt. (Mark 9:43-49)
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is
withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they
are burned. (John 15:6)
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured
out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be
tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels,
and in the presence of the Lamb. (Revelation 14:1)
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate
the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her
flesh, and burn her with fire. (Revelation 17:16)
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought
miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the
mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were
cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation
19:20)
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into
the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall
have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)
----------------------------------
Ya see, Gabby, we honest folk don't give a flying fuck whether your
Bible contains contradictions or not. We judge it on quite *other*
merits, and those other "merits" show the "god" you worship to be an
evil sadistic mother fucker. :-)
--
RedDog the Budweiser Troll
Atheist #e^(pi*i)
But he's 'perfect', don't you know!
Okay, perfect in the eyes of those who can overlook
the fact that he created 'evil' when he had the 'free-
will' NOT to. It helps to convince one's self that what
is considered evil by deity isn't evil if the deity
performs carries out acts he considers evil. That's
because deity has the 'luxury' of proclaiming acts of
pure evil 'good' instead of being the evil he proclaimed
they were originally.
Take the Pharaoh of Exodus fame for example. Originally
he expressed his desire for the Israelites to leave Egypt
of their own accord (Ex. 9:2. Now that was 'good', No?
But how did perfect 'God' reward Pharaoh for bestowing
freedom upon Moses and the Israelites for them to leave
Egypt in peace? Why by hardening his heart so he *wouldn't*
let them go (10:20) and by drowning him and his army later
in the 'Reed' Sea (not 'Red') while in hot pursuit of the very
people he wanted to let go of his own volition. Now that's
what you call an Intelligently Designed plan of the highest
intellectual order. One befitting the most intelligent
creature in all of existence. Wouldn't you agree? Almost as
'brilliant' as permitting that most evil of evil creatures 'God'
Intelligently Designed and 'Created,' Satan, to supernaturally
bamboozle unsuspecting Eve, then Adam, to partake of the
'forbidden fruit' and thus introduce death and 'sin' into the
framework of life when he could have decided not to. Real
'Sharp'. Real 'Smart'. Highly 'Intelligent' thing to do. And
incredibly 'loving' of him on top of it, wouldn't you say? You
would be hard-pressed to find a deity who could be so damn
smart and loving at the very same time, wouldn't you?
But you know what? Overlook any 'imperfection' that may
have been implied here. Believe that 'God' has no
imperfection and just revel in that thought. Believe that 'God'
answers prayers too. Makes for one happy Christian 'camper',
doesn't it? And being a happy Christian is what its all about in
the end, isn't it?
As for the 'unbeliever'? Why all one need do is convince one-
self that they are crazy, incredibly ignorant, or that they 'hate'
'Gods' that are incapable of convincing them that they are
'real'. Oh, I forget: three 'Gods' are actually ONE 'God' these
days, aren't they? Anyway, helps keep the less than critically-
thinking Christian 'camper' happy and the world a wonderful
place in which to live. Nothing wrong with that, now is there?
Not so long as that happy Christian camper remembers to treat
others -- even the unbeliever -- in the same manner *they*
would like to be treated. No?
Greywolf |
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(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:42:40 -0700,
"Mistylein" <yardholler@charter.net> wrote:
| Quote: | (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome
Agendas: Extinction!" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
|
| Quote: | PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God.
But *Not* ALL of it.
Its CONTRADICTIONS are Proof-Positive of That.
There are MANY very REAL contradictions in the Bible. Ones
that are so clear-cut that NO one will EVER be able to explain
them away.
As a Christian, I *do* believe that SOME of the Bible was
Divinely-inspired, and that the Bible Codes have very seren-
dipitously proven that beyond doubt. (Perhaps the "sealed"
information referred-to in Daniel.)
BUT -- the presence of contradictions within the Bible serve
as proof positive that NOT **all** of its content was Divinely-
inspired. For if the Bible WERE completely-inspired by a PERFECT
God, it could contain NO contradictions.
Obviously, God would have inspired the portions of greatest
importance to Him, and probably influenced the later councils of
MEN to include those portions. Unfortunately, those same men
clearly included other writings of their own choosing.
Thus, it is VERY possible that the passages that are harsh
toward homosexuality reflect the OPINIONS of BIGOTED writers.
Significantly, there is NO mention of it in the 10 Commandments.
Luckily for women, *abortion* doesn't seem to have been on
any of their hit lists, since there is NO mention or condemnation
of THAT in the Bible, at all.
As time goes on, the more people use the brains God gave them
to reason things out, the clearer the actual composition of the
Bible becomes.
Now -- IF ONLY the Divinely-inspired portions of the Bible
had just been MORE revealing! It would have been phenomenal
if God had CONTINUED Revelation, for example, for several more
chapters to let us all know what sort of things we'll be DOING in
heaven, and just WHAT sort of jobs we'll have a quadrillion
years from now... an OCTILLION years from now -- and through-
out ALL of endless eternity. How I WISH the Bible had told us
THAT!!
I can't imagine anything more FASCINATING than for God
to have told us that -- INSTEAD of leaving us in the position of
"seeing through a glass darkly." (!!!!!)
Matthew 13: (NIV) (Go read the whole chapter and Stop guessing)
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom
of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever
has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever
does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.
13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are
your eyes because they see, and your ears because they
hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and
righteous men longed to see what you see but did not
see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
|
In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage having *anything* to do
with that. |
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Al Smith
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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| Quote: | In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage having *anything* to do
with that.
|
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
-Al- |
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monkfish
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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Al Smith wrote:
| Quote: | In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
-Al-
|
You don't seem to realize that
your guess will be with you for eternity.
Care to guess again?
Is there anything you would like to do
for eternity, other than sex, eating, or drinking?
--
monkfish
* alt.atheism is removed from the groups header. |
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Al Smith
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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| Quote: | Al Smith wrote:
In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
-Al-
You don't seem to realize that
your guess will be with you for eternity.
Care to guess again?
Is there anything you would like to do
for eternity, other than sex, eating, or drinking?
|
You mean I don't get to change my mind? Well that sucks. If I had to
make a choice, I'd go for scholarly study. I'm doing that in this
life, anyway, so why swap horses in the middle of the time stream?
-Al- |
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(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:20:25 GMT,
Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage's having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
|
LOL!! For all of ETERNITY? Now THAT *would* be HELL !!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
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Al Smith
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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| Quote: | On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:20:25 GMT,
Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote:
In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage's having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
LOL!! For all of ETERNITY? Now THAT *would* be HELL !!
-- Craig Chilton
|
I don't know. We'd all get a chance to work on some very involved
patterns.
-Al- |
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(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 16:52:29 GMT,
Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Craig Chilton wrote:
Al Smith <invalid@address.com> wrote:
Craig Chilton wrote:
|
[ ... ]
| Quote: | In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage's having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
LOL!! For all of ETERNITY? Now THAT *would* be HELL !!
I don't know. We'd all get a chance to work on some very involved
patterns.
|
THAT'S for sure!!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
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Rev. Karl E. Taylor
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Fuck the contradictions. Let's consider the Bible for it |
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RedDog wrote:
| On Jul 24, 3:40 pm, Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
|> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:03:12 GMT, "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) --
|> Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas: Extinction!"
|>
|> <xanadu2...@mchsi.com> wrote:
|>
|> : On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:05:07 -0400,: "Gabriel"
<gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
|>
|> [ .. ]
|> : > So waiting for you to decide:
|> : >
|> : >* you can be honest and admit the one I addressed was not a
|> : >contradiction at all as was clearly explained, and we can
|> : >continue to other supposed "contradictions", or
|> : >* you can point out exactly what is wrong with what I pointed
|> : >out, and we can go from there in clarifying that supposed
|> : >contradiction.
|> :
|> : As soon as I have finished considering ebverything you said
|> : about that one, I WILL let you know.
|>
|> Then when you're done considering and will give a response on
|> this, and I quote you: "real contradiction that is clear-cut
|> that no one will ever be able to explain them away" in the list
|> you provided, we can continue.
|
| LOL. ya know, Gabby boy, you're absolutely right! The Bible never does
| contradict the fact that your God is a lustful and bloodthirsty
| asshole! ..... For example:
|
<Clip of excellent examples of immorality>
|
Hell, my favorite one is where gawd blasts Sodom out of existence and
kills Lot's wife. But has no problem at all with Lot's two whore
daughters getting daddy all blitzed, then fucking his brains out.
It was almost as if gawd enjoyed a little father / daughter action.
- --
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
~ http://azhotops.blogspot.com/
A.A #1143 http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
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Thom Madura
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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monkfish wrote:
| Quote: | Al Smith wrote:
In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
-Al-
You don't seem to realize that
your guess will be with you for eternity.
Care to guess again?
|
That is nonsense - what you are saying is that YOU decide what you will
be doing for eternity - based on your own guesses!
Even religion doesn't say that.
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Al Smith
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:23 am Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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| Quote: | monkfish wrote:
Al Smith wrote:
In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
-Al-
You don't seem to realize that
your guess will be with you for eternity.
Care to guess again?
That is nonsense - what you are saying is that YOU decide what you will be doing for eternity - based on your own guesses!
Even religion doesn't say that.
|
It's the idea that whatever we expect the afterlife to be, that is
what it appears to be, to us. This is the basis for the movie "What
Dreams May Come." It's a popular view in modern times, but no
traditional religion has ever held it, to my knowledge.
-Al- |
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monkfish
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: Re: PARTS of The Bible ARE Inspired by God. But *Not* ALL o |
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Al Smith wrote:
| Quote: | Al Smith wrote:
In all my life, I have NEVER YET met any fellow Christian
who has the remotest CLUE about what we'll be doing throughout
eternity. So much for that passage having *anything* to do
with that.
Quilting. That's my guess. You can burn up an enormous number of
hours quilting.
-Al-
You don't seem to realize that
your guess will be with you for eternity.
Care to guess again?
Is there anything you would like to do
for eternity, other than sex, eating, or drinking?
You mean I don't get to change my mind? Well that sucks. If I had to
make a choice, I'd go for scholarly study. I'm doing that in this
life, anyway, so why swap horses in the middle of the time stream?
-Al-
|
Very good choice.
That might be why we are said
to be created in the image of God.
--
monkfish
* alt.atheism is removed from the groups header. |
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