| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
 |
|
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 01:44:09 -0500,
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote:
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. <xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote:
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. <xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote:
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.<xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
"(`.Craig Chilton.) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas:
Extinction!" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
|
| Quote: | People have the RIGHT to believe (or NOT believe),
as they CHOOSE.
Yeah, that's what Cain tried to tell God, too.
|
<Everything pertaining to the Garden of Eden allegorical story snipped>
I deal with facts, and reality. A fable that leads the ignorant
to think such nonsense as the world's only being a few thousand
years old is irrelevant to this discussion, and would reduce it to
being ludicrous.
And...
| Quote: | BECAUSE GOD PROPHESIED AGAINST CAIN'S PRESENT STANCE
AND FOR ABEL.
|
Caps Lock Key broken, is it? Or are you so DESPERATE to make
points that you capitalize entire sentences? <<sheeesh!!>> Just
one MORE good reason NOT to get involved in discussing fables with
people who actually are hung up on them.
| Quote: | But Cain rebelled against BOTH POINTS -- acceptable behavior
AND human authority over and responsibility for one another, WHICH
IS PRECISELY WHAT CRAIG CHILTON IS ALL ABOUT.
|
Wrong. But --
One of the things that I *AM* all about is sticking to FACTS and
COMMON SENSE, and NOT getting into idiotic debates over the
supposed meaning of FABLES written for a non-scientific civilization
that was about three steps out of the Stone Age.
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
Bill Baker
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
On Sunday 10 August 2008 02:44 am H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
<xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g7m2ns$38e$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
| Quote: | "Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:ELmdneWktpfehQPVnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Saturday 09 August 2008 05:38 pm H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g7l2p1$t58$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:c9ednaIaurotZAnVnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Saturday 02 August 2008 02:25 am H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g70ukd$mba$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:fYSdnVNXR-tS0w7VnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Friday 01 August 2008 12:11 pm H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g6vcjr$qir$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"(`.Craig Chilton.) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas:
Extinction!" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:be849415ap2g3eap5s7hvpab8reruetodu@4ax.com...
People have the
RIGHT to believe (or NOT believe), as they CHOOSE.
LOL
Yeah, that's what Cain tried to tell God, too.
It didn't fly then either...
Ike
Cain tried to tell God he didn't believe in him? Where in the Bible
does
it say that?
Cain tried to tell God that what Abel did was none of his business,
saying
that he wasn't his "brother's keeper."
That's the same asinine argument that CC put up.
Didn't fly then, and doesn't fly now.
No, Cain tried to hide the murder of his brother from God. The message
of the story was not to be your "brother's keeper" but not to murder.
LOL
Yes it is.
Cain murdered Abel because God prophesied the truth to Cain.
No, it was because Cain was jealous of Abel.
BECAUSE GOD PROPHESIED AGAINST CAIN'S PRESENT STANCE AND FOR ABEL.
I EVEN QUOTED IT.
|
And Cain was jealous of Abel.
| Quote: | Jealousy pure and simple.
Ge 4:6-7
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy
countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest
not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him.
Cain rebelled against God's message, then when God called him on the
carpet, Cain said he WASN'T his brother's keeper, directly rebelling
against the message God had given him.
The WHOLE THING was over WHO WOULD HAVE AUTHORITY OVER WHOM, and Cain
had the upper hand through obedience, so Cain rejected the notion of
EITHER ONE OF THEM having authority (or responsibility) FOR WATCHING OUT
FOR THE OTHER.
Right. And that means that no one person has the authority to kill
another
person.
HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT "KILL" IN THE PROPHECY, goofball...
HE SPOKE OF AUTHORITY AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE ANOTHER...
|
Yes, the responsibility not to kill another person.
| Quote: | Ge 4:6-7
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy
countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him.
The CAUSE of the murder wasn't MURDER--the CAUSE of the murder WAS A
DISPUTE ABOUT ACCEPTABILITY AND AUTHORITY.
|
No, the cause of the murder was jealousy. Cain was jealous that Abel's
offering was more acceptable.
| Quote: | ABEL did things right, making him ACCEPTABLE to God.
Cain did things WRONG, making him UNACCEPTABLE to God, and the Lord TOLD
HIM ABOUT, and that, IF HE WOULD DO WHAT WAS ACCEPTABLE, he would HAVE
AUTHORITY OVER CAIN, i.e. "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him."
But Cain rebelled against BOTH POINTS--acceptable behavior AND human
authority over and responsibility for one another, WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT
CRAIG CHILTON IS ALL ABOUT.
|
Wrong. The only responsibility we have is to care for others. Not to try
to scare them into believing the same things we believe.
| Quote: | Only God has that authority.
Nope.
|
Yup.
| Quote: | God extended that authority to man, and it was, in fact, CAIN'S FAULT...
|
So because Cain committed murder that means everyone has the authority to
commit murder?
| Quote: | Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in
the image of God made he man.
|
Sounds a lot like "an eye for an eye." Didn't someone else later in the
Bible take a stance against that?
| Quote: | People
still have the right to believe as they choose without some kook trying
to scare them into believing the same way they do.
Not when they're lying to themselves and everyone around them.
Jesus and the boys TRASHED frauds who did that.
Jesus "trashed" people who told others what to believe.
Bullshit.
Jesus TRASHED the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians WHO PERVERTED THE
WORD, NOT "who told others what to believe."
|
Pharisees told other people what to believe. They were the religious ruling
class, like priests, bishops, cardinals and the Pope are now.
| Quote: | HE told the believers TO TELL OTHERS WHAT TO BELIEVE IN, namely, HIMSELF.
|
No. He told them to preach the good news. He never told anyone to believe
anything they didn't want to. In fact, he said if anyone couldn't accept
what he preached, to leave (John 6:60-66).
| Quote: | People who are so
hung up on rules and laws that they completely miss God and the
intentions behind the laws.
That's only 1/3 of the problem.
People who IGNORE rules and laws ALSO completely miss God and the
intentions behind the laws, and people who go LEFT when they should go
RIGHT and RIGHT when they should go LEFT constitute the other ignorant
third.
|
Wrong. People who are hung up on rules and laws tell people they should go
left rather than right or that they are ignoring rules.
| Quote: | NOBODY should tell anyone else how they should believe.
Ehhhhhh.
Wrong answer.
In fact, THAT'S THE ANSWER OF CAIN TO GOD.
|
Wrong again. Cain said nothing about how people should believe in God.
| Quote: | Only stupid and/or
gullible people can be made to believe something they don't really
believe out of fear.
Funny, since it's FEAR that DRIVES YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS--the FEAR that
you
MIGHT ACTUALLY BE SCREWED IN THE HEAD.
No need to fear--YOU ARE.
What fear do you imagine I have that drives my supposed false teachings?
Everyone is.
Don't project.
No "projection" to it...
Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
EVERYBODY is "screwed in the head."
The question is are you going to stand there and DENY it, or DO something
about it?
|
Doing something about it does not mean trying to scare ignorant or gullible
people into believing something they don't want to believe. That only
makes you more "screwed in the head."
| Quote: | Time to confess it and start moving in the RIGHT direction instead of
the wrong one.
I am already moving in the right direction for me. Of that I am 100%
sure.
So was Cain...
|
Even if he was, that doesn't mean that I am wrong.
--
<Sonium> someone speak python here?
<lucky> HHHHHSSSSSHSSS
<lucky> SSSSS
<Sonium> the programming language |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Ray Fischer
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Hypocrite
| Quote: | Ray Fischer
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@_mchsi.com> wrote:
snip everything
Declare victory and run away.
Wrong.
|
In one post the hypocrite chilton whines because I dared to trim his
ego-driven bullshitting. In this post he trims everything because he
cannot come up with a rational rebuttal and then tries to justify it.
See #1 below
Here are some "fact-based" statements about chilton that
have not been refuted.
1) chilton has such a bloated ego that he will post and repost
the same garbage again and again and take offense when others
don't do likewise.
2) chilton is, by his own words, a criminal.
3) chilton is a coward who will run away from facts that prove
him wrong.
4) chilton is an irrational liar who cannot accept the facts
about immigration laws even when they stare him in the face.
5) chilton is insanely bigoted against immigrants.
6) chilton hates the Constitution and wants to discard key
protections in order to persecute immigrants.
7) chilton wants to see thousands of people die.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
On 12 Aug 2008 03:32:43 GMT,
Ray Fichser <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
| Quote: | (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:
Ray Fichser <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@_mchsi.com> wrote:
snip everything
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
Declare victory and run away.
|
[[[ READERS: Please note that Ray dishonestly
OMITTED the relevant text below, now
*restored*, without a <snip> notation. The
restored text is between the double brackets. ]]]
| Quote: | Wrong. [[ The DISCUSSION I was having with him
goes on, on the TOPIC of proselytization. But there is
NO point in discussing a REAL issue from the standpoint
of a FABLE. *That* would be utter nonsense, and
pointless. ]]
In one post ... Chilton whines because I dared to trim his
[text].
|
In YOUR posts, you almost ALWAYS *omit* RELEVANT
tes that is germane to the point I was making, and you
almost NEVER include a proper <snip> type of notation.
In MINE, I always try to include the <snip> notation. and
I never snip relevant text UNLESS I can provide a VERY good
reason for doing so. In this case, the person with whom I
was discussing proselytizing was attempting to tie that into
the ALLEGORICAL Garden of Eden account. I was dealing
with FACTS, and *he* was dealing with FICTION. Totally
incompatible in the discussion of proselytizing. One cannot
argue for that on the basis of a FABLE if he wants to be
taken seriously.
| Quote: | In this post he trims everything because he cannot
come up with a rational rebuttal and then tries to justify it.
|
See above. I had a 100% rational answer for the snip,
and as you can see in the post I made to him, below, you
can see that for yourself. And if you are HONEST for a
change, you will acknowledge that. (Pretty much everyone
ELSE will have no trouble understanding it.)
<unrelated and already-answered lies flushed>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:27:59 -0500,
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
<snip everything>
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
<snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
THIS, from a thread I initiated yesterday, gets to the
nitty-gritty of the proselytization issue:
If the Bible were to tell us *everything,* it would have to be
trillions of volumes long. So obviously, a LOT of significant and
important things have been left out.
One of the MOST important things probably has to do with
the way God deals with the problem of people who die without
ever having HEARD of Jesus Christ. Much less ever had a chance
to accept Him.
Let's assume, from what the Bible has said, that children
who die while below the age of "accountability" (and only GOD
knows what THAT is, case-by-case) go to heaven. That just
leaves the VAST majority of people who survive childhood, and
become adults.
If we consider just China (1.3 billion people) and India (1.1
billion), we have about 2/5 of the entire world's population in
those two countries alone. Two countries that have only a TINY
percentage of Christians. It's probably a safe bet that in those
countries, fewer than 10% have ever even HEARD of Jesus.
And that is probably being quite generous. That leaves at least
1/3 of all of humanity alive today who know NOTHING about
Jesus.
There are MANY things that we know about, that the Bible
doesn't cover. Such as nuclear fusion. How bacteria cause
disease. The fact that there's no atmosphere on the moon.
And the jobs we'll have throughout eternity, after we die. (You
know... that fascinating information the Bible COULD have
provided, if only Revelation had been a few chapters longer!)
Etc., etc. And perhaps its most PROFOUND omission has to
do with the way a LOVING God who has, as Jesus, proclaimed
that people can come to Him ONLY through Christ -- can keep
FROM watching billions of people who never heard of Jesus
from winding up in hell.
The ONLY thing that seems reasonable, to fit that require-
ment, would be for there to be a process -- one that the Bible
*omitted* -- by which those billions of people COULD still come
to Christ... AFTER they die.
God created a LOT of angels, and it's not unreasonable to
think that one of THEIR tasks IN heaven (or perhaps some form
of ante-chamber) is to present the gospel message to all those
billions of souls, and give them the choice after that, to either
accept or reject Christ.
Now -- as for the billions who DO learn of Jesus while still
alive, and then have that same choice -- they are surely at
great peril. Because if they learn the gospel message while
alive, and then happen to REJECT it, as countless millions of
people regularly do, then there is no reason to think that they
would get another chance after death. Having NOT gone to
their deaths innocent of that knowledge.
Jesus almost surely commanded His followers to spread the
gospel as an act of faith. BUT -- it just may be possible that
those who are recipients of that effort who then choose NOT
to accept Christ, have been done NO favors!
Proselytization's DARK side!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Ray Fischer
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas: Extinction! <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
And again the hypocrite whines because his every fart isn't copied
even as he slashes every proof of his own dishonesty and cowardice.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
On 12 Aug 2008 06:49:04 GMT,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote...
...NOTHING TRUTHFUL, as usual.
<flush boring lies>
So previous post, that he answered NONE of, follows:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On 12 Aug 2008 03:32:43 GMT,
Ray Fichser <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
| Quote: | (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:
Ray Fichser <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@_mchsi.com> wrote:
snip everything
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
Declare victory and run away.
|
[[[ READERS: Please note that Ray dishonestly
OMITTED the relevant text below, now
*restored*, without a <snip> notation. The
restored text is between the double brackets. ]]]
| Quote: | Wrong. [[ The DISCUSSION I was having with him
goes on, on the TOPIC of proselytization. But there is
NO point in discussing a REAL issue from the standpoint
of a FABLE. *That* would be utter nonsense, and
pointless. ]]
In one post ... Chilton whines because I dared to trim his
[text].
|
In YOUR posts, you almost ALWAYS *omit* RELEVANT
tes that is germane to the point I was making, and you
almost NEVER include a proper <snip> type of notation.
In MINE, I always try to include the <snip> notation. and
I never snip relevant text UNLESS I can provide a VERY good
reason for doing so. In this case, the person with whom I
was discussing proselytizing was attempting to tie that into
the ALLEGORICAL Garden of Eden account. I was dealing
with FACTS, and *he* was dealing with FICTION. Totally
incompatible in the discussion of proselytizing. One cannot
argue for that on the basis of a FABLE if he wants to be
taken seriously.
| Quote: | In this post he trims everything because he cannot
come up with a rational rebuttal and then tries to justify it.
|
See above. I had a 100% rational answer for the snip,
and as you can see in the post I made to him, below, you
can see that for yourself. And if you are HONEST for a
change, you will acknowledge that. (Pretty much everyone
ELSE will have no trouble understanding it.)
<unrelated and already-answered lies flushed>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:27:59 -0500,
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
<snip everything>
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
<snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
THIS, from a thread I initiated yesterday, gets to the
nitty-gritty of the proselytization issue:
If the Bible were to tell us *everything,* it would have to be
trillions of volumes long. So obviously, a LOT of significant and
important things have been left out.
One of the MOST important things probably has to do with
the way God deals with the problem of people who die without
ever having HEARD of Jesus Christ. Much less ever had a chance
to accept Him.
Let's assume, from what the Bible has said, that children
who die while below the age of "accountability" (and only GOD
knows what THAT is, case-by-case) go to heaven. That just
leaves the VAST majority of people who survive childhood, and
become adults.
If we consider just China (1.3 billion people) and India (1.1
billion), we have about 2/5 of the entire world's population in
those two countries alone. Two countries that have only a TINY
percentage of Christians. It's probably a safe bet that in those
countries, fewer than 10% have ever even HEARD of Jesus.
And that is probably being quite generous. That leaves at least
1/3 of all of humanity alive today who know NOTHING about
Jesus.
There are MANY things that we know about, that the Bible
doesn't cover. Such as nuclear fusion. How bacteria cause
disease. The fact that there's no atmosphere on the moon.
And the jobs we'll have throughout eternity, after we die. (You
know... that fascinating information the Bible COULD have
provided, if only Revelation had been a few chapters longer!)
Etc., etc. And perhaps its most PROFOUND omission has to
do with the way a LOVING God who has, as Jesus, proclaimed
that people can come to Him ONLY through Christ -- can keep
FROM watching billions of people who never heard of Jesus
from winding up in hell.
The ONLY thing that seems reasonable, to fit that require-
ment, would be for there to be a process -- one that the Bible
*omitted* -- by which those billions of people COULD still come
to Christ... AFTER they die.
God created a LOT of angels, and it's not unreasonable to
think that one of THEIR tasks IN heaven (or perhaps some form
of ante-chamber) is to present the gospel message to all those
billions of souls, and give them the choice after that, to either
accept or reject Christ.
Now -- as for the billions who DO learn of Jesus while still
alive, and then have that same choice -- they are surely at
great peril. Because if they learn the gospel message while
alive, and then happen to REJECT it, as countless millions of
people regularly do, then there is no reason to think that they
would get another chance after death. Having NOT gone to
their deaths innocent of that knowledge.
Jesus almost surely commanded His followers to spread the
gospel as an act of faith. BUT -- it just may be possible that
those who are recipients of that effort who then choose NOT
to accept Christ, have been done NO favors!
Proselytization's DARK side!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:g6CdnZdZ66uRxj3VnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
| Quote: | On Sunday 10 August 2008 02:44 am H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g7m2ns$38e$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:ELmdneWktpfehQPVnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Saturday 09 August 2008 05:38 pm H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g7l2p1$t58$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:c9ednaIaurotZAnVnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Saturday 02 August 2008 02:25 am H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g70ukd$mba$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:fYSdnVNXR-tS0w7VnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Friday 01 August 2008 12:11 pm H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g6vcjr$qir$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"(`.Craig Chilton.) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas:
Extinction!" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:be849415ap2g3eap5s7hvpab8reruetodu@4ax.com...
People have the
RIGHT to believe (or NOT believe), as they CHOOSE.
LOL
Yeah, that's what Cain tried to tell God, too.
It didn't fly then either...
Ike
Cain tried to tell God he didn't believe in him? Where in the Bible
does
it say that?
Cain tried to tell God that what Abel did was none of his business,
saying
that he wasn't his "brother's keeper."
That's the same asinine argument that CC put up.
Didn't fly then, and doesn't fly now.
No, Cain tried to hide the murder of his brother from God. The
message
of the story was not to be your "brother's keeper" but not to murder.
LOL
Yes it is.
Cain murdered Abel because God prophesied the truth to Cain.
No, it was because Cain was jealous of Abel.
BECAUSE GOD PROPHESIED AGAINST CAIN'S PRESENT STANCE AND FOR ABEL.
I EVEN QUOTED IT.
And Cain was jealous of Abel.
|
JEALOUSY is NOT an end unto itself.
It always has a CATALYST, and the CATALYST was that GOD PREFERRED ABEL'S
SACRIFICE OVER CAIN'S, and TOLD CAIN ABOUT IT, and Cain went on to reject
BOTH GOD'S PREMISE and ABEL'S AUTHORITY over him.
| Quote: | Jealousy pure and simple.
Ge 4:6-7
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy
countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest
not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and
thou
shalt rule over him.
Cain rebelled against God's message, then when God called him on the
carpet, Cain said he WASN'T his brother's keeper, directly rebelling
against the message God had given him.
The WHOLE THING was over WHO WOULD HAVE AUTHORITY OVER WHOM, and Cain
had the upper hand through obedience, so Cain rejected the notion of
EITHER ONE OF THEM having authority (or responsibility) FOR WATCHING
OUT
FOR THE OTHER.
Right. And that means that no one person has the authority to kill
another
person.
HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT "KILL" IN THE PROPHECY, goofball...
HE SPOKE OF AUTHORITY AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE ANOTHER...
Yes, the responsibility not to kill another person.
|
NO, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF AUTHORITY.
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him."
ABEL had AUTHORITY over CAIN because ABEL DID WHAT WAS RIGHT.
GOD TOLD CAIN THAT IF HE DID WHAT WAS RIGHT, HE WOULD HAVE AUTHORITY OVER
CAIN.
CAIN REJECTED BOTH GOD'S ***AND*** CAIN'S AUTHORITY, AND THEN, HAVING BEEN
CAUGHT AT IT, HAD THE AUDACITY TO ASK "AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER" WHEN GOD
HAD ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT HE WAS.
Man, do you heretics EVER PAY ATTENTION TO THE DETAILS?
| Quote: | Ge 4:6-7
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy
countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest
not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him.
The CAUSE of the murder wasn't MURDER--the CAUSE of the murder WAS A
DISPUTE ABOUT ACCEPTABILITY AND AUTHORITY.
No,
|
YES!
GO BACK AND READ THE STORY.
| Quote: | the cause of the murder was jealousy.
|
YO.
MORON.
WHAT WAS HE "JEALOUS" OVER?
| Quote: | Cain was jealous that Abel's
offering was more acceptable.
|
THAT'S ONLY PART OF THE STORY.
GO BACK AND READ WHAT GOD SAID TO CAIN (which is underscored by Cain's
ironic question, "Am I my brother's keeper?"
| Quote: | ABEL did things right, making him ACCEPTABLE to God.
Cain did things WRONG, making him UNACCEPTABLE to God, and the Lord TOLD
HIM ABOUT, and that, IF HE WOULD DO WHAT WAS ACCEPTABLE, he would HAVE
AUTHORITY OVER CAIN, i.e. "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him."
But Cain rebelled against BOTH POINTS--acceptable behavior AND human
authority over and responsibility for one another, WHICH IS PRECISELY
WHAT
CRAIG CHILTON IS ALL ABOUT.
Wrong.
|
RIGHT.
CRAIG REJECTS THE AUTHORITY OF GOD AND MAN, JUST LIKE CAIN DID.
| Quote: | The only responsibility we have is to care for others.
|
NO, SHIT, SHERLOCK.
BUT "caring" INCLUDES OBEDIENCE TO LAW AND ORDER.
| Quote: | Not to try
to scare them into believing the same things we believe.
|
LOL
Whether it's the ROD OR STAFF, the END RESULT IS THE SAME.
| Quote: | Only God has that authority.
Nope.
Yup.
|
NOPE.
Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN shall his blood be shed: for in
the image of God made he man.
| Quote: | God extended that authority to man, and it was, in fact, CAIN'S FAULT...
So because Cain committed murder that means everyone has the authority to
commit murder?
|
MURDER does NOT EQUAL THE DEATH PENALTY (as the simpletons try to
rationalize).
| Quote: | Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in
the image of God made he man.
Sounds a lot like "an eye for an eye." Didn't someone else later in the
Bible take a stance against that?
|
Jesus did NOT take "a stance against that." He was taking a stance AGAINST
HYPOCRISY, not THE LAW.
(Once again, you don't pay attention to the DETAILS of the story.)
| Quote: | People
still have the right to believe as they choose without some kook
trying
to scare them into believing the same way they do.
Not when they're lying to themselves and everyone around them.
Jesus and the boys TRASHED frauds who did that.
Jesus "trashed" people who told others what to believe.
Bullshit.
Jesus TRASHED the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians WHO PERVERTED THE
WORD, NOT "who told others what to believe."
Pharisees told other people what to believe.
|
IT WASN'T TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THAT WAS THE ISSUE, oh, clueless one--IT WAS
WHAT THEY WERE TELLING THEM.
| Quote: | They were the religious ruling
class, like priests, bishops, cardinals and the Pope are now.
|
Non sequitur.
FIRST, you have to prove A CONNECTION between THE PHARISEES, SADDUCEES, AND
HERODIANS, and certain Christian leaders.
See, Paul spoke well of people like you, saying that you would SPEAK EVIL of
DIGNITARIES, and that WITHOUT MAKING A CASE, but just PASSING SUMMARY
JUDGMENT.
| Quote: | HE told the believers TO TELL OTHERS WHAT TO BELIEVE IN, namely, HIMSELF.
No.
|
WHAT?!?
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath
everlasting life.
That would be a YES, oh, clueless one.
| Quote: | He told them to preach the good news.
|
HE IS THE "GOOD NEWS," dolt.
| Quote: | He never told anyone to believe
anything they didn't want to. In fact, he said if anyone couldn't accept
what he preached, to leave (John 6:60-66).
|
WITH THE CONSEQUENCE BEING DEATH, oh, clueless one.
| Quote: | People who are so
hung up on rules and laws that they completely miss God and the
intentions behind the laws.
That's only 1/3 of the problem.
People who IGNORE rules and laws ALSO completely miss God and the
intentions behind the laws, and people who go LEFT when they should go
RIGHT and RIGHT when they should go LEFT constitute the other ignorant
third.
Wrong.
|
RIGHT.
The PROBLEM breaks down along THREE LINES--FALSE COMPASSION, FALSE
RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND FALSE JUDGMENT.
That DOESN'T mean there isn't a TRUE COMPASSION, TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND
TRUE JUDGMENT.
(But don't the REVISIONISTS try to make it so...)
| Quote: | People who are hung up on rules and laws tell people they should go
left rather than right or that they are ignoring rules.
|
Thus saith the fools...
| Quote: | NOBODY should tell anyone else how they should believe.
Ehhhhhh.
Wrong answer.
In fact, THAT'S THE ANSWER OF CAIN TO GOD.
Wrong again.
|
RIGHT AGAIN.
"AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER?" = IT'S NOT MY BUSINESS (WHEN, in fact, IT WAS).
| Quote: | Cain said nothing about how people should believe in God.
|
That's because Cain said HOW NOT TO BELIEVE IN GOD, by REJECTING THE
AUTHORITY OF GOD AND MAN.
MAN, you're clueless.
| Quote: | Only stupid and/or
gullible people can be made to believe something they don't really
believe out of fear.
Funny, since it's FEAR that DRIVES YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS--the FEAR that
you
MIGHT ACTUALLY BE SCREWED IN THE HEAD.
No need to fear--YOU ARE.
What fear do you imagine I have that drives my supposed false teachings?
Everyone is.
Don't project.
No "projection" to it...
Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
EVERYBODY is "screwed in the head."
The question is are you going to stand there and DENY it, or DO something
about it?
Doing something about it does not mean trying to scare ignorant or
gullible
people into believing something they don't want to believe. That only
makes you more "screwed in the head."
Time to confess it and start moving in the RIGHT direction instead of
the wrong one.
I am already moving in the right direction for me. Of that I am 100%
sure.
So was Cain...
Even if he was, that doesn't mean that I am wrong.
|
Oh, yeah. You're wrong.
In fact, you're just another bullshit artist like Craig.
Ike |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Ray Fischer
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Advocate for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas
| Quote: | On 12 Aug 2008 06:49:04 GMT,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote...
...NOTHING TRUTHFUL, as usual.
|
"Declare victory and run away"
Note #3 below:
Here are some "fact-based" statements about chilton that
have not been refuted.
1) chilton has such a bloated ego that he will post and repost
the same garbage again and again and take offense when others
don't do likewise.
2) chilton is, by his own words, a criminal.
3) chilton is a coward who will run away from facts that prove
him wrong.
4) chilton is an irrational liar who cannot accept the facts
about immigration laws even when they stare him in the face.
5) chilton is insanely bigoted against immigrants.
6) chilton hates the Constitution and wants to discard key
protections in order to persecute immigrants.
7) chilton wants to see thousands of people die.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
On 13 Aug 2008 02:39:48 GMT,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote...
...NOTHING TRUTHFUL, as usual.
<flush boring lies>
So previous post, that he answered NONE of, follows:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On 12 Aug 2008 03:32:43 GMT,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
| Quote: | (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer<rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@_mchsi.com> wrote:
snip everything
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
Declare victory and run away.
|
[[[ READERS: Please note that Ray dishonestly
OMITTED the relevant text below, now
*restored*, without a <snip> notation. The
restored text is between the double brackets. ]]]
| Quote: | Wrong. [[ The DISCUSSION I was having with him
goes on, on the TOPIC of proselytization. But there is
NO point in discussing a REAL issue from the standpoint
of a FABLE. *That* would be utter nonsense, and
pointless. ]]
In one post ... Chilton whines because I dared to trim his
[text].
|
In YOUR posts, you almost ALWAYS *omit* RELEVANT
tes that is germane to the point I was making, and you
almost NEVER include a proper <snip> type of notation.
In MINE, I always try to include the <snip> notation. and
I never snip relevant text UNLESS I can provide a VERY good
reason for doing so. In this case, the person with whom I
was discussing proselytizing was attempting to tie that into
the ALLEGORICAL Garden of Eden account. I was dealing
with FACTS, and *he* was dealing with FICTION. Totally
incompatible in the discussion of proselytizing. One cannot
argue for that on the basis of a FABLE if he wants to be
taken seriously.
| Quote: | In this post he trims everything because he cannot
come up with a rational rebuttal and then tries to justify it.
|
See above. I had a 100% rational answer for the snip,
and as you can see in the post I made to him, below, you
can see that for yourself. And if you are HONEST for a
change, you will acknowledge that. (Pretty much everyone
ELSE will have no trouble understanding it.)
<unrelated and already-answered lies flushed>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:27:59 -0500,
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
<snip everything>
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
<snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
THIS, from a thread I initiated yesterday, gets to the
nitty-gritty of the proselytization issue:
If the Bible were to tell us *everything,* it would have to be
trillions of volumes long. So obviously, a LOT of significant and
important things have been left out.
One of the MOST important things probably has to do with
the way God deals with the problem of people who die without
ever having HEARD of Jesus Christ. Much less ever had a chance
to accept Him.
Let's assume, from what the Bible has said, that children
who die while below the age of "accountability" (and only GOD
knows what THAT is, case-by-case) go to heaven. That just
leaves the VAST majority of people who survive childhood, and
become adults.
If we consider just China (1.3 billion people) and India (1.1
billion), we have about 2/5 of the entire world's population in
those two countries alone. Two countries that have only a TINY
percentage of Christians. It's probably a safe bet that in those
countries, fewer than 10% have ever even HEARD of Jesus.
And that is probably being quite generous. That leaves at least
1/3 of all of humanity alive today who know NOTHING about
Jesus.
There are MANY things that we know about, that the Bible
doesn't cover. Such as nuclear fusion. How bacteria cause
disease. The fact that there's no atmosphere on the moon.
And the jobs we'll have throughout eternity, after we die. (You
know... that fascinating information the Bible COULD have
provided, if only Revelation had been a few chapters longer!)
Etc., etc. And perhaps its most PROFOUND omission has to
do with the way a LOVING God who has, as Jesus, proclaimed
that people can come to Him ONLY through Christ -- can keep
FROM watching billions of people who never heard of Jesus
from winding up in hell.
The ONLY thing that seems reasonable, to fit that require-
ment, would be for there to be a process -- one that the Bible
*omitted* -- by which those billions of people COULD still come
to Christ... AFTER they die.
God created a LOT of angels, and it's not unreasonable to
think that one of THEIR tasks IN heaven (or perhaps some form
of ante-chamber) is to present the gospel message to all those
billions of souls, and give them the choice after that, to either
accept or reject Christ.
Now -- as for the billions who DO learn of Jesus while still
alive, and then have that same choice -- they are surely at
great peril. Because if they learn the gospel message while
alive, and then happen to REJECT it, as countless millions of
people regularly do, then there is no reason to think that they
would get another chance after death. Having NOT gone to
their deaths innocent of that knowledge.
Jesus almost surely commanded His followers to spread the
gospel as an act of faith. BUT -- it just may be possible that
those who are recipients of that effort who then choose NOT
to accept Christ, have been done NO favors!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Ray Fischer
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas: Extinction! <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On 13 Aug 2008 02:39:48 GMT,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote...
...NOTHING TRUTHFUL, as usual.
flush boring lies
|
Note #3 below
Here are some "fact-based" statements about chilton that
have not been refuted.
1) chilton has such a bloated ego that he will post and repost
the same garbage again and again and take offense when others
don't do likewise.
2) chilton is, by his own words, a criminal.
3) chilton is a coward who will run away from facts that prove
him wrong.
4) chilton is an irrational liar who cannot accept the facts
about immigration laws even when they stare him in the face.
5) chilton is insanely bigoted against immigrants.
6) chilton hates the Constitution and wants to discard key
protections in order to persecute immigrants.
7) chilton wants to see thousands of people die.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
On 13 Aug 2008 17:30:49 GMT,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote...
...NOTHING TRUTHFUL, as usual.
<flush boring lies>
So previous post, that he answered NONE of, follows:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On 12 Aug 2008 03:32:43 GMT,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
| Quote: | (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer<rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@_mchsi.com> wrote:
snip everything
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
Declare victory and run away.
|
[[[ READERS: Please note that Ray dishonestly
OMITTED the relevant text below, now
*restored*, without a <snip> notation. The
restored text is between the double brackets. ]]]
| Quote: | Wrong. [[ The DISCUSSION I was having with him
goes on, on the TOPIC of proselytization. But there is
NO point in discussing a REAL issue from the standpoint
of a FABLE. *That* would be utter nonsense, and
pointless. ]]
In one post ... Chilton whines because I dared to trim his
[text].
|
In YOUR posts, you almost ALWAYS *omit* RELEVANT
tes that is germane to the point I was making, and you
almost NEVER include a proper <snip> type of notation.
In MINE, I always try to include the <snip> notation. and
I never snip relevant text UNLESS I can provide a VERY good
reason for doing so. In this case, the person with whom I
was discussing proselytizing was attempting to tie that into
the ALLEGORICAL Garden of Eden account. I was dealing
with FACTS, and *he* was dealing with FICTION. Totally
incompatible in the discussion of proselytizing. One cannot
argue for that on the basis of a FABLE if he wants to be
taken seriously.
| Quote: | In this post he trims everything because he cannot
come up with a rational rebuttal and then tries to justify it.
|
See above. I had a 100% rational answer for the snip,
and as you can see in the post I made to him, below, you
can see that for yourself. And if you are HONEST for a
change, you will acknowledge that. (Pretty much everyone
ELSE will have no trouble understanding it.)
<unrelated and already-answered lies flushed>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:27:59 -0500,
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote:
<snip everything>
There was NO disrespect meant to you by my making that
<snip> just now. I simply want to get things back on track,
when it comes to proselytizing -- and I regard the Garden of
Eden account... Cain, Abel, and all, to be allegorical at best.
For anyone to take that seriously, we'd have to dispense
with the reality of hundreds of thousands of years of cave-
dwelling humanity.
THIS, from a thread I initiated yesterday, gets to the
nitty-gritty of the proselytization issue:
If the Bible were to tell us *everything,* it would have to be
trillions of volumes long. So obviously, a LOT of significant and
important things have been left out.
One of the MOST important things probably has to do with
the way God deals with the problem of people who die without
ever having HEARD of Jesus Christ. Much less ever had a chance
to accept Him.
Let's assume, from what the Bible has said, that children
who die while below the age of "accountability" (and only GOD
knows what THAT is, case-by-case) go to heaven. That just
leaves the VAST majority of people who survive childhood, and
become adults.
If we consider just China (1.3 billion people) and India (1.1
billion), we have about 2/5 of the entire world's population in
those two countries alone. Two countries that have only a TINY
percentage of Christians. It's probably a safe bet that in those
countries, fewer than 10% have ever even HEARD of Jesus.
And that is probably being quite generous. That leaves at least
1/3 of all of humanity alive today who know NOTHING about
Jesus.
There are MANY things that we know about, that the Bible
doesn't cover. Such as nuclear fusion. How bacteria cause
disease. The fact that there's no atmosphere on the moon.
And the jobs we'll have throughout eternity, after we die. (You
know... that fascinating information the Bible COULD have
provided, if only Revelation had been a few chapters longer!)
Etc., etc. And perhaps its most PROFOUND omission has to
do with the way a LOVING God who has, as Jesus, proclaimed
that people can come to Him ONLY through Christ -- can keep
FROM watching billions of people who never heard of Jesus
from winding up in hell.
The ONLY thing that seems reasonable, to fit that require-
ment, would be for there to be a process -- one that the Bible
*omitted* -- by which those billions of people COULD still come
to Christ... AFTER they die.
God created a LOT of angels, and it's not unreasonable to
think that one of THEIR tasks IN heaven (or perhaps some form
of ante-chamber) is to present the gospel message to all those
billions of souls, and give them the choice after that, to either
accept or reject Christ.
Now -- as for the billions who DO learn of Jesus while still
alive, and then have that same choice -- they are surely at
great peril. Because if they learn the gospel message while
alive, and then happen to REJECT it, as countless millions of
people regularly do, then there is no reason to think that they
would get another chance after death. Having NOT gone to
their deaths innocent of that knowledge.
Jesus almost surely commanded His followers to spread the
gospel as an act of faith. BUT -- it just may be possible that
those who are recipients of that effort who then choose NOT
to accept Christ, have been done NO favors!
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL.
http://apifar.blogspot.com -- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry.
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com -- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Bill Baker
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: First "contradiction" explained, showing how it's not a |
|
|
On Tuesday 12 August 2008 03:28 pm H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
<xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g7so8d$jno$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
| Quote: | "Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:g6CdnZdZ66uRxj3VnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Sunday 10 August 2008 02:44 am H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g7m2ns$38e$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:ELmdneWktpfehQPVnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Saturday 09 August 2008 05:38 pm H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g7l2p1$t58$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:c9ednaIaurotZAnVnZ2dnUVZ_sednZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Saturday 02 August 2008 02:25 am H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g70ukd$mba$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"Bill Baker" <wbaker@postini.spamcon.org> wrote in message
news:fYSdnVNXR-tS0w7VnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@earthlink.com...
On Friday 01 August 2008 12:11 pm H.E. Eickleberry, Jr.
xeickleberrybooks@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<g6vcjr$qir$1@registered.motzarella.org>...
"(`.Craig Chilton.) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome Agendas:
Extinction!" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:be849415ap2g3eap5s7hvpab8reruetodu@4ax.com...
People have the
RIGHT to believe (or NOT believe), as they CHOOSE.
LOL
Yeah, that's what Cain tried to tell God, too.
It didn't fly then either...
Ike
Cain tried to tell God he didn't believe in him? Where in the
Bible does
it say that?
Cain tried to tell God that what Abel did was none of his business,
saying
that he wasn't his "brother's keeper."
That's the same asinine argument that CC put up.
Didn't fly then, and doesn't fly now.
No, Cain tried to hide the murder of his brother from God. The
message
of the story was not to be your "brother's keeper" but not to murder.
LOL
Yes it is.
Cain murdered Abel because God prophesied the truth to Cain.
No, it was because Cain was jealous of Abel.
BECAUSE GOD PROPHESIED AGAINST CAIN'S PRESENT STANCE AND FOR ABEL.
I EVEN QUOTED IT.
And Cain was jealous of Abel.
JEALOUSY is NOT an end unto itself.
|
But jealousy caused Cain to murder Abel.
| Quote: | It always has a CATALYST, and the CATALYST was that GOD PREFERRED ABEL'S
SACRIFICE OVER CAIN'S, and TOLD CAIN ABOUT IT, and Cain went on to reject
BOTH GOD'S PREMISE and ABEL'S AUTHORITY over him.
Jealousy pure and simple.
Ge 4:6-7
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy
countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest
not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and
thou
shalt rule over him.
Cain rebelled against God's message, then when God called him on the
carpet, Cain said he WASN'T his brother's keeper, directly rebelling
against the message God had given him.
The WHOLE THING was over WHO WOULD HAVE AUTHORITY OVER WHOM, and Cain
had the upper hand through obedience, so Cain rejected the notion of
EITHER ONE OF THEM having authority (or responsibility) FOR WATCHING
OUT
FOR THE OTHER.
Right. And that means that no one person has the authority to kill
another
person.
HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT "KILL" IN THE PROPHECY, goofball...
HE SPOKE OF AUTHORITY AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE ANOTHER...
Yes, the responsibility not to kill another person.
NO, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF AUTHORITY.
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him."
ABEL had AUTHORITY over CAIN because ABEL DID WHAT WAS RIGHT.
GOD TOLD CAIN THAT IF HE DID WHAT WAS RIGHT, HE WOULD HAVE AUTHORITY OVER
CAIN.
CAIN REJECTED BOTH GOD'S ***AND*** CAIN'S AUTHORITY, AND THEN, HAVING BEEN
CAUGHT AT IT, HAD THE AUDACITY TO ASK "AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER" WHEN GOD
HAD ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT HE WAS.
Man, do you heretics EVER PAY ATTENTION TO THE DETAILS?
|
You're clearly confused. Just because Cain had an authority and
responsibility for his brother doesn't give you justification to tell
others what to believe.
| Quote: | Ge 4:6-7
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy
countenance fallen?
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest
not
well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and
thou shalt rule over him.
The CAUSE of the murder wasn't MURDER--the CAUSE of the murder WAS A
DISPUTE ABOUT ACCEPTABILITY AND AUTHORITY.
No,
YES!
GO BACK AND READ THE STORY.
|
I have. Several times.
| Quote: | the cause of the murder was jealousy.
YO.
MORON.
WHAT WAS HE "JEALOUS" OVER?
|
God accepted Abel's sacrifice over his.
| Quote: | Cain was jealous that Abel's
offering was more acceptable.
THAT'S ONLY PART OF THE STORY.
GO BACK AND READ WHAT GOD SAID TO CAIN (which is underscored by Cain's
ironic question, "Am I my brother's keeper?"
|
You're reading too much into it. Cain was trying to avoid answering God's
question. That still doesn't mean you have to try to scare gullible and
ignorant people into believing something.
| Quote: | ABEL did things right, making him ACCEPTABLE to God.
Cain did things WRONG, making him UNACCEPTABLE to God, and the Lord TOLD
HIM ABOUT, and that, IF HE WOULD DO WHAT WAS ACCEPTABLE, he would HAVE
AUTHORITY OVER CAIN, i.e. "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou
shalt rule over him."
But Cain rebelled against BOTH POINTS--acceptable behavior AND human
authority over and responsibility for one another, WHICH IS PRECISELY
WHAT
CRAIG CHILTON IS ALL ABOUT.
Wrong.
RIGHT.
CRAIG REJECTS THE AUTHORITY OF GOD AND MAN, JUST LIKE CAIN DID.
|
Craig is a Christian, so he does not reject the authority of God. To my
knowledge he has not been in jail, so he does not reject the authority of
man.
| Quote: | The only responsibility we have is to care for others.
NO, SHIT, SHERLOCK.
BUT "caring" INCLUDES OBEDIENCE TO LAW AND ORDER.
|
Obedience to the laws of man. But trying to scare gullible and ignorant
people into a belief system is not "caring" for people.
| Quote: | Not to try
to scare them into believing the same things we believe.
LOL
Whether it's the ROD OR STAFF, the END RESULT IS THE SAME.
|
Sounds like you have some very disturbing S&M fantasies.
| Quote: | Only God has that authority.
Nope.
Yup.
NOPE.
|
YUP.
| Quote: | Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN shall his blood be shed: for in
the image of God made he man.
God extended that authority to man, and it was, in fact, CAIN'S FAULT...
So because Cain committed murder that means everyone has the authority to
commit murder?
MURDER does NOT EQUAL THE DEATH PENALTY (as the simpletons try to
rationalize).
|
So why would the death penalty be a punishment for murder if they're not
equal, then? In both murder and the death penalty, someone winds up dead.
| Quote: | Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for
in the image of God made he man.
Sounds a lot like "an eye for an eye." Didn't someone else later in the
Bible take a stance against that?
Jesus did NOT take "a stance against that." He was taking a stance AGAINST
HYPOCRISY, not THE LAW.
(Once again, you don't pay attention to the DETAILS of the story.)
|
What hypocrisy? He was taking a stand against paying someone back equal for
a crime they committed.
| Quote: | People
still have the right to believe as they choose without some kook
trying
to scare them into believing the same way they do.
Not when they're lying to themselves and everyone around them.
Jesus and the boys TRASHED frauds who did that.
Jesus "trashed" people who told others what to believe.
Bullshit.
Jesus TRASHED the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians WHO PERVERTED THE
WORD, NOT "who told others what to believe."
Pharisees told other people what to believe.
IT WASN'T TELLING OTHER PEOPLE THAT WAS THE ISSUE, oh, clueless one--IT
WAS WHAT THEY WERE TELLING THEM.
|
Yes, they were telling them what to believe.
| Quote: | They were the religious ruling
class, like priests, bishops, cardinals and the Pope are now.
Non sequitur.
|
Sic sequitur. The religious ruling class tells people what to believe.
| Quote: | FIRST, you have to prove A CONNECTION between THE PHARISEES, SADDUCEES,
AND HERODIANS, and certain Christian leaders.
See, Paul spoke well of people like you, saying that you would SPEAK EVIL
of DIGNITARIES, and that WITHOUT MAKING A CASE, but just PASSING SUMMARY
JUDGMENT.
|
What evil have I spoken against the Pharisees? I just stated the fact that
they were part of the religious ruling class that tells people what to
believe.
| Quote: | HE told the believers TO TELL OTHERS WHAT TO BELIEVE IN, namely,
HIMSELF.
No.
WHAT?!?
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath
everlasting life.
That would be a YES, oh, clueless one.
|
Where in that verse does he say to tell others what to believe?
| Quote: | He told them to preach the good news.
HE IS THE "GOOD NEWS," dolt.
|
No. The Good News is that God loves everybody and that Jesus destroyed sin.
| Quote: | He never told anyone to believe
anything they didn't want to. In fact, he said if anyone couldn't accept
what he preached, to leave (John 6:60-66).
WITH THE CONSEQUENCE BEING DEATH, oh, clueless one.
|
Nope, he never said that.
| Quote: | People who are so
hung up on rules and laws that they completely miss God and the
intentions behind the laws.
That's only 1/3 of the problem.
People who IGNORE rules and laws ALSO completely miss God and the
intentions behind the laws, and people who go LEFT when they should go
RIGHT and RIGHT when they should go LEFT constitute the other ignorant
third.
Wrong.
RIGHT.
|
Wrong.
| Quote: | The PROBLEM breaks down along THREE LINES--FALSE COMPASSION, FALSE
RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND FALSE JUDGMENT.
|
And you have demonstrated all three.
| Quote: | That DOESN'T mean there isn't a TRUE COMPASSION, TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND
TRUE JUDGMENT.
(But don't the REVISIONISTS try to make it so...)
People who are hung up on rules and laws tell people they should go
left rather than right or that they are ignoring rules.
Thus saith the fools...
|
Typical response from one who lacks a logical argument.
| Quote: | NOBODY should tell anyone else how they should believe.
Ehhhhhh.
Wrong answer.
In fact, THAT'S THE ANSWER OF CAIN TO GOD.
Wrong again.
RIGHT AGAIN.
|
| |
