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 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: personal question |
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Hello all
I have a question from friends. There is a lot of emphasis on
preserving marriage and family life in bahai faith. What do you advise
in the following siuation?
One spouse embraces Bahai faith. The other spouse (non bahai) has
fundamental beleifs and doesnot approve of Bahai faith. Tesiosn arise
and it looks like he only way to save the marriage is if the Bahai
spouse becomes a total silent beleiver with no expression of faith,
teaching the faith to rest of the family or even attending the feasts.
What is the general recommendation in the light of Bahai teachings?
Thank you |
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Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: personal question |
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On Feb 14, 6:42 am, "Kent Johnson" <k...@compx2.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Personal beliefs should not become a barrier to a happy family life. Ma~ń
ny
Baha'is I have known have lived quiet lives, showing their Faith in silent
ways. But the Faith is clear in its teachings that the unity of humanit
y is
more important than religious displays.
Others here, I am sure, will tell you of Abdu'l-Baha directing a Western
believer not to become a Baha'i if would cause disharmony in the family.
And we all know that if two people fight about religion they are both wron
g.
--Kent
Dr.S....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:GbqdnSk5gM2DcC7anZ2dnUVZ_sytnZ2d@giganews.com...
Hello all
I have a question from friends. There is a lot of emphasis on
preserving marriage and family life in bahai faith. What do you advise
in the following siuation?
One spouse embraces Bahai faith. The other spouse (non bahai) has
fundamental beleifs and doesnot approve of Bahai faith. Tesiosn arise
and it looks like he only way to save the marriage is if the Bahai
spouse becomes a total silent beleiver with no expression of faith,
teaching the faith to rest of the family or even attending the feasts.
What is the general recommendation in the light of Bahai teachings?
Thank you- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
|
Thank you Kent
Its very nice of you to reply. If the spouse doesnot tolertae going to
the feast or teach bahai prayers to the child etc. , do you still
advise to keep silent? is it not persecution on religious grounds?. In
this particular case, spouse is struggling to live with the concept
that his wife has embraced bahhai faith. His behaviour changed after
learning the fact. His religion doesnot accept a bahai wife. Why put a
man to misery to save the marriage when there is extreme discomfort?
Thank you for your advice |
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Kent Johnson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: personal question |
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Personal beliefs should not become a barrier to a happy family life. Many
Baha'is I have known have lived quiet lives, showing their Faith in silent
ways. But the Faith is clear in its teachings that the unity of humanity is
more important than religious displays.
Others here, I am sure, will tell you of Abdu'l-Baha directing a Western
believer not to become a Baha'i if would cause disharmony in the family.
And we all know that if two people fight about religion they are both wrong.
--Kent
<Dr.S.Dar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:GbqdnSk5gM2DcC7anZ2dnUVZ_sytnZ2d@giganews.com...
| Quote: | Hello all
I have a question from friends. There is a lot of emphasis on
preserving marriage and family life in bahai faith. What do you advise
in the following siuation?
One spouse embraces Bahai faith. The other spouse (non bahai) has
fundamental beleifs and doesnot approve of Bahai faith. Tesiosn arise
and it looks like he only way to save the marriage is if the Bahai
spouse becomes a total silent beleiver with no expression of faith,
teaching the faith to rest of the family or even attending the feasts.
What is the general recommendation in the light of Bahai teachings?
Thank you
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Susan Maneck
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: personal question |
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| Quote: | Others here, I am sure, will tell you of Abdu'l-Baha directing a Western
believer not to become a Baha'i if would cause disharmony in the family.
|
Dear Kent,
I don't know of any such direction from Abdu'l-Baha. Can you give a
source. I would think the following passage suggest the opposite:
As to thy question, "If the husband preventeth his wife from entering
into the Light, or the wife preventeth the husband from entering into
the Kingdom of God." In reality neither one of them preventeth the
other from entering into the Kingdom of God, except when the husband
hath a great attachment to the wife, or the wife to the husband. When
either one of the two adoreth the other to the exclusion of God, then
each will prevent the other from entering into the Kingdom of God.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v3, p. 609)
We also have this from the Guardian:
"The Guardian ... is very much grieved indeed to learn of the severe
opposition which you are encountering from your husband because of
your affiliation with the Cause. He can very well realize the terrible
condition facing you, but feels confident that Bahá'u'lláh is guiding
you to follow the right way, and is continually assisting and
strengthening you in your efforts to solve this most serious and
challenging problem of your life. The staunch and unwavering loyalty
and devotion which you have thus far so splendidly demonstrated in
your attitude to the Faith is truly remarkable and worthy of the
highest praise and admiration. The persecutions from which you are now
suffering have this one great advantage, namely to deepen your faith
is the Cause, and to revive and refresh your energies for its service.
You should, therefore, rejoice and welcome those sufferings in so far
as they serve to further awaken your consciousness of being member of
the New World Order of Bahá'u'lláh. "The Guardian wishes me specially
to urge you to remain patient and confident, and above all to show
your husband the utmost kindness and love, in return for all the
opposition and hatred you receive from him. A conciliatory and
friendly attitude in such cases is not only the duty of every Bahá'í
but is also the most effective way of winning for the Cause the
sympathy and admiration of its former foes and enemies. Love is,
indeed, a most potent elixir that can transform vilest and meanest of
people into heavenly souls. May your example serve to further confirm
the truth of this beautiful teaching of our Faith."
(From a letter written of behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual
believer, December 6, 1935)
Similarly:
"It seems to him that just as you leave your husband free to believe
or not to believe in whatever pleases him, he should accord you the
same rudimentary privilege. Surely the right to worship God in the way
one believes to be right is the greatest fundamental freedom in the
world? On the other hand no one should force one's own convictions on
another and if Mr. ... objects to your Bahá'í affiliation you should
carry on your activities not secretly, but not in such a way as to
force him to be constantly conscious of them. In other words, you
should, for his sake, sometimes forgo the pleasure of attending a
Feast or meeting if there is something he wants you to do with him.
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 223)
| Quote: | And we all know that if two people fight about religion they are both wro
ng. |
On the other, hand a marriage where one partner must keep their inmost
thoughts secret from the other is already in deep trouble.
Certainly one should not become so overly involved in Baha'i
activities that the non-Baha'i spouse feels neglected. As a letter
written on behalf of the Guardian states:
"Surely Shoghi Effendi would like to see you and the other friends
give their whole time and energy to the Cause, for we are in great
need for competent workers, but the home is an institution that
Bahá'u'lláh has come to strengthen and not to weaken. Many unfortunate
things have happened in Bahá'í homes just for neglecting this point.
Serve the Cause but also remember your duties towards your home. It is
for you to find the balance and see that neither makes you neglect the
other. We would have many more husbands in the Cause were the wives
more thoughtful and moderate in their Bahá'í activities."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 220)
He also gave the following advice:
"He would not advise you to in any way force the teachings on your
husband, but rather through prayer, love and example attract his heart
to what he will be forced to see has not only made you a happier
person but a better wife and mother than ever before. It is often most
difficult to teach those nearest to us, but the Guardian will
earnestly pray that your husband and children will join you in serving
this wonderful Cause."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual
believer: High Endeavours, Messages to Alaska, pp. 72-73)
warmest, Susan |
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Susan Maneck
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: personal question |
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| Quote: | Thank you Kent
Its very nice of you to reply. If the spouse doesnot tolertae going to
the feast or teach bahai prayers to the child etc. , do you still
advise to keep silent? is it not persecution on religious grounds?. In
this particular case, spouse is struggling to live with the concept
that his wife has embraced bahhai faith. His behaviour changed after
learning the fact. His religion doesnot accept a bahai wife. Why put a
man to misery to save the marriage when there is extreme discomfort?
Thank you for your advice
|
Dear Dr. Dar,
When you say "his religion does not accept a Bahai wife" are we
talking about a Muslim? Because Christianity teaches that a Christian
should only marry a Christian but if they are already married to a
non-Christian they should not get divorced unless the non-Christian
demands it. Baha'is are allowed to marry non-Baha'is and often do if
only because our community is so small. But Abdu'l-Baha also said we
were allowed to do so because there is no prejudice or bigotry in the
Baha'i Faith.
Your wording of this question appears odd to me. If it is the wife who
has become a Baha'i and he is the one persecuting her, then it is not
the man who is being put in misery, he is creating misery! If a man
wants to get divorced because his wife changed her religion it is
likely the wife can do nothing to prevent this. But unless this man
becomes abusive and she needs to do something for her own safety and
that of the children, then let him be the one to file for divorce, not
her. Let the responsibility for the destruction of this marriage be
placed at his feet where it belongs.
I must say that the situation you describe certainly sounds bleak. It
sounds like the real problem is that this man cannot accept his wife's
equality in general. Refusing to allow her to make her own religious
decisions is merely symptomatic of that. If they didn't have marital
problems before this, that may be because the wife never asserted
herself. I hope this person is living in America where the
woman will likely get custody of the children.
warmest, Susan |
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Kent Johnson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: personal question |
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Hi Susan,
My Southern Baptist, ne Episcopalian father divorced my Baha'i mother when I
was quite young, and I am finding out now that a lot of what my mother told
me about the Baha'i Faith, that I have accepted all these years, might not
be true.
But a quick search found this:
"For example, a Bahá'í who is married to a non-Bahá'í may well have to
limit his activities to same degree in order to maintain the unity of his
family. (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 86)"
"Obviously, if both parties are Bahá'ís they cannot baptize their child,
however, in the case of a non-Bahá'ís spouse insisting upon the baptism of
the children, we said in a letter to the National Assembly of Spain of 18
February 1965:
'The Bahá'í parent may attend the ceremony with the understanding that he
will not undertake any commitment or vow which is contrary to the principles
of his Faith.'"
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 138)
"In deciding whether or not to participate in such traditional activities,
the Bahá'ís must guard against two extremes. The one is to disassociate
themselves needlessly from harmless cultural observances and thus alienate
themselves from their non-Bahá'ís families and friends; the other is to
continue the practice of abrogated observances of previous dispensations and
thus undermine the independence of the Bahá'í Faith and create undesirable
distinctions between themselves and their fellow-Bahá'ís..."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 138)
"Concerning the membership of Mr. ... in the synagogue; as this concerns his
non-Bahá'í Jewish wife and means a great deal to her - even involving the
place of her burial -- the Guardian does not feel it is right to request him
to take a step which would deprive her of her own religious rights. On the
other hand,he sees no reason why Mr. ... should not write a letter to the
appropriate authority in this 161 synagogue, explaining that he is a
practising Bahá'í, but is keeping his synagogue membership for the benefit
of his wife and children ... " (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 160)
More as time permits. --Kent
"Susan Maneck" <smaneck@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:TYydnQnB9sxj7SnanZ2dnUVZ_smnnZ2d@giganews.com...
| Quote: | Others here, I am sure, will tell you of Abdu'l-Baha directing a Western
believer not to become a Baha'i if would cause disharmony in the family.
|
Dear Kent,
I don't know of any such direction from Abdu'l-Baha. Can you give a
source. I would think the following passage suggest the opposite:
As to thy question, "If the husband preventeth his wife from entering
into the Light, or the wife preventeth the husband from entering into
the Kingdom of God." In reality neither one of them preventeth the
other from entering into the Kingdom of God, except when the husband
hath a great attachment to the wife, or the wife to the husband. When
either one of the two adoreth the other to the exclusion of God, then
each will prevent the other from entering into the Kingdom of God.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v3, p. 609)
We also have this from the Guardian:
"The Guardian ... is very much grieved indeed to learn of the severe
opposition which you are encountering from your husband because of
your affiliation with the Cause. He can very well realize the terrible
condition facing you, but feels confident that Bahá'u'lláh is guiding
you to follow the right way, and is continually assisting and
strengthening you in your efforts to solve this most serious and
challenging problem of your life. The staunch and unwavering loyalty
and devotion which you have thus far so splendidly demonstrated in
your attitude to the Faith is truly remarkable and worthy of the
highest praise and admiration. The persecutions from which you are now
suffering have this one great advantage, namely to deepen your faith
is the Cause, and to revive and refresh your energies for its service.
You should, therefore, rejoice and welcome those sufferings in so far
as they serve to further awaken your consciousness of being member of
the New World Order of Bahá'u'lláh. "The Guardian wishes me specially
to urge you to remain patient and confident, and above all to show
your husband the utmost kindness and love, in return for all the
opposition and hatred you receive from him. A conciliatory and
friendly attitude in such cases is not only the duty of every Bahá'í
but is also the most effective way of winning for the Cause the
sympathy and admiration of its former foes and enemies. Love is,
indeed, a most potent elixir that can transform vilest and meanest of
people into heavenly souls. May your example serve to further confirm
the truth of this beautiful teaching of our Faith."
(From a letter written of behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual
believer, December 6, 1935)
Similarly:
"It seems to him that just as you leave your husband free to believe
or not to believe in whatever pleases him, he should accord you the
same rudimentary privilege. Surely the right to worship God in the way
one believes to be right is the greatest fundamental freedom in the
world? On the other hand no one should force one's own convictions on
another and if Mr. ... objects to your Bahá'í affiliation you should
carry on your activities not secretly, but not in such a way as to
force him to be constantly conscious of them. In other words, you
should, for his sake, sometimes forgo the pleasure of attending a
Feast or meeting if there is something he wants you to do with him.
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 223)
| Quote: | And we all know that if two people fight about religion they are both wro
ng. |
On the other, hand a marriage where one partner must keep their inmost
thoughts secret from the other is already in deep trouble.
Certainly one should not become so overly involved in Baha'i
activities that the non-Baha'i spouse feels neglected. As a letter
written on behalf of the Guardian states:
"Surely Shoghi Effendi would like to see you and the other friends
give their whole time and energy to the Cause, for we are in great
need for competent workers, but the home is an institution that
Bahá'u'lláh has come to strengthen and not to weaken. Many unfortunate
things have happened in Bahá'í homes just for neglecting this point.
Serve the Cause but also remember your duties towards your home. It is
for you to find the balance and see that neither makes you neglect the
other. We would have many more husbands in the Cause were the wives
more thoughtful and moderate in their Bahá'í activities."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 220)
He also gave the following advice:
"He would not advise you to in any way force the teachings on your
husband, but rather through prayer, love and example attract his heart
to what he will be forced to see has not only made you a happier
person but a better wife and mother than ever before. It is often most
difficult to teach those nearest to us, but the Guardian will
earnestly pray that your husband and children will join you in serving
this wonderful Cause."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual
believer: High Endeavours, Messages to Alaska, pp. 72-73)
warmest, Susan |
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