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 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On 19 Aug, 12:45, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:14:59 +0100, "Martin" <martin1471spamf...@outgun.com
wrote:
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course, more
than the Church in theological matters. When they agree amongst themselves
then we can worry, much like the history of the Church and Christendom. We
should have stuck to the Latin and spared the grief.
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Hmmmm... probably because most people here express their beliefs without
fear or favour, and are not afraid to question tradition, superstition and
self-proclaimed 'authority'.
Yet turn to their own authority to declare truth?
|
I turn to the authority of the bible - bypassing all those hail-marys
etc gets you there a lot quicker! ;-)
| Quote: | In other words, they might not hear what they want to hear. Jim seems to
find that all freedom of thought (religiously) is heretical, as is any
criticism of the CC.
Well, I don't know what Jim said. I think all Christians should buy a copy of
the Catechism and read it. Most for the first time would find out how scripture
all comes together, OT + NT, rather than see scripture as a bunch of one-liners.
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We don't but there is some room for the holy spirit - we don't need
dogma for everything and anything! We can sleep easy at night not
knowing how many angels could dance on the head of a pin!
| Quote: | duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On 19 Aug, 12:46, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT), claire.easth...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Because he loves insulting everybody! To him insulting people is no
more a waste of time than sport (which is pretty much a waste of time
but gives people pleasure!)
The RC is insulted, or the RC does the insulting?
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Jim does the insulting and he does it in the name of the Catholic
church but rest assured we know that Jim does not represent all
Catholics!  |
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1st Century Apostolic Tra
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! and forgivness of sin |
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<jwsheffield@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:29ab2248-6918-4fbf-9c57-d3de2c2987b3@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Ac 16:15 - And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought
us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into
my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
|
You have been show elsewhere which people of a household were baptised....it
was restricted to believers.
Stop weaselling around Apostate Jim.
I guess you must have been christened as a unbelieving baby otherwise you
would not carry on so stupidly, when the facts have been put right into your
face.
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord
Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto
him the word of the Lord, and to [1]ALL that were in his house. 33 And he
took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was
baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into
his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, BELIEVING IN GOD WITH ALL
HIS HOUSE."
Acts 16:30-34 (KJV)
[1] It would be wasted on sleeping babies, as they could not believe or
accept "The word of the Lord"
| Quote: | When my two sons were born, they
were part of my household.
|
And I suppose they believed and confessed Christ and understood "The word of
the Lord" just prior to when you had them uselessly christened?
| Quote: | I didn't
throw them out until they became
adults, and neither does God.
|
He rather, does not accept anyone today who refuses to be baptised AFTER
they believe in him.
As baby christening is not a NT baptism, God does not recognise such a
wicked departure from Christ's and Apostolic teaching. Belief THEN baptism
by water immersion is the Apostolic practise.
| Quote: | They took to the milk at
birth.
Jim
|
You really do surprise us...{;o;}
| Quote: | 1Pe 2:2 - As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that
ye may grow thereby:
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Don't be so dumb, Peter means to accept the word of God with as much desire
and eagerness as newborn babies love imbibing their mother's milk.
<Sigh>
You haven't got that senility problem you were on about, have you Jim?
Jeff...
"And the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be
baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou
mayest." Acts 8:36-37 (KJV)
Did you believe with all your heart before you were baptised, Jim? |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On 19 Aug, 15:00, "Martin" <martin1471spamf...@outgun.com> wrote:
| Quote: | claire.easth...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:26f0435a-21dd-4936-b59e-3fce70094fab@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Hardly surprising, since your particular church almost always comes up
wanting in this respect Jim. They are so incredibly inflexible and
arrogant,
so far out of tune and out of touch with reality, they only admitted
Galileo
was right in the late C19!
Well, these new scientific ideas take a while to catch on! :-)
To my astonishment, they actually have representatives (c/w monks habit,
tonsure etc.) who shamelessly appear on TV programs today, to defend and
justify the methods and institution of the Spanish Inquisition - somewhat
inneffectively I thought.
Seriously? Who's Catholicism's answer to David Irvine (the Far Right
Holocaust-denying Historian one that is) then?
I can'r remember his name, but there was a rather intriguing series on the
backwater cable history channels about "Secrets of the Inquisition", well
researched and based on previously hidden documents that someone dug up on a
dusty shelf in the Vatican. Trial records, minutely detailed, and
fascinating to see - I had no idea they were so vehemently anti-semitic in
Victorian times.
A nice old boy, with a non-intimidating 'monkish habit' (i.e., no hood), who
came out with trite comments such as.. "well, you must understand that in
those days, burning someone to death was seen as a blessing, a purification
of their sins through fire... a merciful thing really?" So apparently was
boiling alive in turpentine, the mass destruction of libraries and books to
"save people from themselves", the extraction of confessions under torture "
for their own good...", and of course, the confiscation of property, assets
and cash by the church of any who failed to toe the line (sorry, that should
read "fail to appreciate the benevolent wisdom of the church).
|
Bloody hell!!! :-/
| Quote: | Worth a watch - no doubt those who made it will be consigned to Hell for
"reading out of turn", but....
|
I’d like to see that but I don’t subscribe to Sky’s “Dangerously
Fundamentalist Supremacist” package! Maybe that channel is like
“purgatory”- If we all pray for the programme-makers it might be shown
on BBC 2? |
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Martin
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:flcla4pbr26n40721vsv74t2lss3dar9al@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:08:27 +0100, "Martin"
martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com
wrote:
"Jim" <jim.docherty@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ReidnSc0lpHEszrVnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@bt.com...
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:93oaa4d4hjgqedhhe56617ktpsbm3n9nvh@4ax.com...
On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:25:46 -0700 (PDT), claire.easthope@ntlworld.com
wrote:
On 13 Aug, 21:56, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
1stCenturyAposto...@Traditionalist.com> wrote:
"John Cooper" <bl...@bishop1960.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6gguvkFfvtsfU1@mid.individual.net...
God is just.
We are going to be judged according to our works - Matthew 16:27;
25:14-46;
Luke 12:35-48; 19:12-27; Romans 2:5-10; 14:10-12; 1.Corinthians
3:8-18;
2.Corinthians 5:9,10; Colossians 3:23-25; 1.Peter 1:17; 4:17,18;
2.John 8;
Revelation 20:12,13; 22:12.
There is absolutely nothing - no ceremony, no ritual, no church
membership,
no "sinners' prayer", no experience, nor anything else, which can
alter
the
above.
Baptism, in whatever form, cannot substitute for obedience to the
Gospel.
How can it be a substitute John?
Being baptised AFTER belief, is part of being obedient to the Gospel.
Well said!
John 3:5 (New International Version)
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of
God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
Mark 10:13-14 (New International Version)
The Little Children and Jesus
13People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them,
but the
disciples rebuked them. 14When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He
said
to
them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for
the
kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Please show where in scripture baptism is called for after "belief".
Children
don't "believe".
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course,
more
than the Church in theological matters.
Hardly surprising, since your particular church almost always comes up
wanting in this respect Jim. They are so incredibly inflexible and
arrogant,
so far out of tune and out of touch with reality, they only admitted
Galileo
was right in the late C19!
To my astonishment, they actually have representatives (c/w monks habit,
tonsure etc.) who shamelessly appear on TV programs today, to defend and
justify the methods and institution of the Spanish Inquisition - somewhat
inneffectively I thought.
Did your church from AD0 wear 3 piece suits?
|
My "church" is my own, and derives from long before AD0, as well as long
after AD0. No 'suit' ever tells me what to believe, or what to do!
| Quote: | The Vatican remains one of the most paranoid, blinkered and uncompromising
authorities in the world, and also one of the most secretive - hardly
surprising when you see what they have to hide!
How does one compromise the word of God? The easiest way is to think an
individual has a corner on the market.
|
You have hit the nail on the head there Duke! The only thing I'd add is
'claims to have', or perhaps 'thinks it has' before "cornering the market",
as that is quite plainly obvious in respect of God's Word and the Catholic
Church.
They did very well at concealing the fact they were lacking in this respect
for some 1500 years, but failed in the end, despite using intimidation,
terror and unspeakable brutality to prevent the general public merely
reading the Bible for themselves. The Truth will always come out however...
and whether you believe the Bible to be the absolute, irrevocable and
unaltered Word of God or not, that despicable behaviour is well-recorded
historical fact (indeed, recorded by those who did it!).
The Holy Father and his predecessors claim to have been "God's Vicar on
Earth", do they not? Including Pope Joan, and my distant relative, Pope
Alexander of the Borgia family. I'm quite sure that even his children (not
bad for a Pope?) Cesare and Lucretia would have laughed at any suggestion
that the Vatican is the repository of God's Word...
Cheers
Martin
PS Think carefully before you reply.... batting on a sticky wicket, situated
on thin ice, is not a good place to be! Especially when the Daughter of Time
has it in for you. |
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Martin
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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<claire.easthope@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:26f0435a-21dd-4936-b59e-3fce70094fab@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Hardly surprising, since your particular church almost always comes up
wanting in this respect Jim. They are so incredibly inflexible and
arrogant,
so far out of tune and out of touch with reality, they only admitted
Galileo
was right in the late C19!
Well, these new scientific ideas take a while to catch on! :-)
To my astonishment, they actually have representatives (c/w monks habit,
tonsure etc.) who shamelessly appear on TV programs today, to defend and
justify the methods and institution of the Spanish Inquisition - somewhat
inneffectively I thought.
Seriously? Who's Catholicism's answer to David Irvine (the Far Right
Holocaust-denying Historian one that is) then?
|
I can'r remember his name, but there was a rather intriguing series on the
backwater cable history channels about "Secrets of the Inquisition", well
researched and based on previously hidden documents that someone dug up on a
dusty shelf in the Vatican. Trial records, minutely detailed, and
fascinating to see - I had no idea they were so vehemently anti-semitic in
Victorian times.
A nice old boy, with a non-intimidating 'monkish habit' (i.e., no hood), who
came out with trite comments such as.. "well, you must understand that in
those days, burning someone to death was seen as a blessing, a purification
of their sins through fire... a merciful thing really?" So apparently was
boiling alive in turpentine, the mass destruction of libraries and books to
"save people from themselves", the extraction of confessions under torture "
for their own good...", and of course, the confiscation of property, assets
and cash by the church of any who failed to toe the line (sorry, that should
read "fail to appreciate the benevolent wisdom of the church).
Worth a watch - no doubt those who made it will be consigned to Hell for
"reading out of turn", but.... |
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Martin
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:d9cla4tcvfsmfdrptl3d6sms6q4hl8tmae@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:14:59 +0100, "Martin"
martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com
wrote:
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course,
more
than the Church in theological matters. When they agree amongst
themselves
then we can worry, much like the history of the Church and Christendom.
We
should have stuck to the Latin and spared the grief.
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Hmmmm... probably because most people here express their beliefs without
fear or favour, and are not afraid to question tradition, superstition and
self-proclaimed 'authority'.
Yet turn to their own authority to declare truth?
|
In the respect of "God's Word", I personally accept nobody's, and no
organisation/church/cult/guru/prophet's (etc.etc) assurances or promises
that they have it exclusively, and all others are wrong - how incredibly
arrogant is that!
Truth (in this respect) does not come from ancient, mistranslated,
questionable historical documents, nor from the tempting promises and sleek
words of modern day, self-proclaimed 'messiahs', it comes from the heart and
soul.
| Quote: | In other words, they might not hear what they want to hear. Jim seems to
find that all freedom of thought (religiously) is heretical, as is any
criticism of the CC.
Well, I don't know what Jim said. I think all Christians should buy a
copy of
the Catechism and read it. Most for the first time would find out how
scripture
all comes together, OT + NT, rather than see scripture as a bunch of
one-liners.
|
Jim (if you don't know of him) is a somewhat irascible and abrasive fellow,
who puts backs up and is not afraid to use insult and abuse to push his
points - even he would not disagree with that I suspect? He is therefore one
of the very worst choices to advocate anything at all, especially something
so indefensible as the Catholic church!
Others are not of course, and this is certainly not an "anti-Catholic"
place, some of us are just intolerant of intolerance. In fact, some of my
best friends are catholics...
Cheer
Martin |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Wise Bible Readings 2 |
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On 19 Aug, 09:46, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<1stCenturyAposto...@Traditionalist.com> wrote:
| Quote: | claire.easth...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:32e49a4b-d551-4094-81c4-dabd3c74c0cf@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On 16 Aug, 20:28, "Jim" <jim.doche...@btinternet.com> wrote:
claire.easth...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:10c6aba9-aea8-422e-b541-9540be6af1e2@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On 9 Aug, 23:56, "Jim" <jim.doche...@btinternet.com> wrote:
Yum, I like mince!  tahehehe!
So glad, you can certainly talk some. Go take a history lesson from
somewhere that hasn't dumbed down.
The history of what?
Everything!
~You've studied "the history of everything"? wow, aren't you a clever
~boy!
So clever he once stated.....
"The Bible is too complex and contradictory for me.
I am consoled by; Matthew: Chapter 16, verses 17-19"
No wonder, its about the only verse he ever quotes, we now know why, he is
not Biblically literate.
Jeff...
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You’ve heard of the abridged works of William Shakespeare? Well, Jim’s
doing the abridged teachings of Catholicism!  |
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jwsheffield@satx.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! and forgivness of sin |
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Ac 16:15 - And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought
us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come
into
my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
When my two sons were born, they
were part of my household. I didn't
throw them out until they became
adults, and neither does God.
They took to the milk at
birth.
Jim
1Pe 2:2 - As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that
ye may grow thereby:
May I ask if you threw your children out
of your household, until they became
adults? If you didn't you are saying God
is worse than yoy?
As for babies not being able to believe.
Mt 21:16 - And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus
saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes
and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
Jim
Mt 11:25 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O
Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things
from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. |
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The Nice Mean Man
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Texas Lawmaker Proposes Tougher Divorce Laws |
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On Aug 17, 7:57 am, "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's
Loathsome Agendas: Extinction!" <xanadu2...@mchsi.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:24:10 GMT,
"(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) -- Rx for RRR Cult's Loathsome
Agendas: Extinction!" <xan...@mchsi.com> wrote:
"Jon Young"/"IBen Getiner," using one of his moronic
sockpuppets <hitherand...@aol.com> spewed:
"(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) <xan...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) wrote:
Jon Young/IBen Getiner <Jvisi...@live.com> PARROTED:
Protecting the sanctity of marriage...
"Sanctity" of marraige. What a JOKE!!
How "sacred" are marriages performed OUTSIDE of
reigious settings? Such as ones performed by judges,
ship captains, some mayors, and justices of the peace.
There's nothing WACKIER than a person or group's
whining about "sanctity" of marriage. Since the ONLY
possible sanctity is that which is ASCRIBED to it by
religions WHEN performed by a cleric OF the given
religion.
http://www.citizenlink.org/CLBriefs/A000007759.cfm
[[[ READERS: Suggest you always look closely
at the RRR Cult URLs Jon/IBen cites. THIS
one is from James Dobson's loathsome part
of that oligarchy called "Focus on the Family"
-- which PRIMARILY focusses of seeking to
DESTROY personal liberties for tens of millions
of people. (I wonder if IBen will ever parrot
an HONEST source of information, other than
just BIGOTED ones?) ]]]
Texas Lawmaker Proposes Tougher Divorce Laws
TEXAS again. Poor Patrick, and everyone else having a
brain and good common sense, who live there... having to
see the name of their good state BESMIRCHED by the RRR
Cult extremists within it.
Tell me about it.
My native state and I have a real love/hate thing going...
Yeah. It's a bummer. I feel the same way, because i once
lived in Waco. (BEFORE the Wacko... Koresh.)
IBen {said] that forced marriage is good. Because while no law
can keep the true incorrigibles in our society from doing as they wilt,
the vast majority of the normal people will benifit. That's because
each and every one of them will one day be forced into that dark
corner of doubt in their own marriages.
ANYTHING that either you or IBen say would have to be taken
with a grain of salt the size of the Rock of Gibralter by SENSIBLE
and fair-minded egalitarians.
Which isn't surprising at al -- now that we all know that you
ARE Iben, using one of your ludicrous sockpuppets.
If people like you dictate the rules,the easy thing would be to opt
out the side door that easy divorce laws provide for them.
Actually, I support having the LEAST rules in place possible, so as
to ensure personal liberties with wide latitude, and still prevent
anarchy. That's what egalitarians do.
And when people like me put no-fault divorce into place, that
accorded SENSIBLE freedom of choice to people who longer can
get along together maritally.
But because they're forced to stay, they eventually get over
their little trial and stay together.
If they were FORCED to, they might stay together. Up until one
or the other of them murdered or maimed each other.
Just likethey did before YOU PEOPLE took your control over
the courts.
THANK HEAVEN for our egalitarian Courts!!! They have been
well ahead of the too-slow-moving curve in according reasonable
LIBERTIES to people!!
That's why our kids are in such a mess these days, Craig.
A "mess?" I would LOVE to have had the chance to grow up
in the 21st century, instead of the 1940s and '50s. Those lucky,
LUCKY kids of today!!!
Eventually, the vast majority of folks will ALWAYS default to
theirlowest base emotions without laws, Craig. Haven't you figured
that out yet?
WITHOUT laws, yes. But as you can see above, I support
SENSIBLE laws.
-- Craig Chilton
xanadu...@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me.
http://www.roadrat.com -- Learn how to get PAID to TRAVEL..
http://apifar.blogspot.com-- Great TACTICS to Fight Bigotry..
http://pro-christian.blogspot.com-- Christianity *vs.* Bigotry..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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LOL....!!! Now I KNOW that you’re an imposter. Because the REAL Xraig
Xanadu would NEVER stoop to the level of turning cry-baby in a vain
attempt to garnish the much-needed attention he craves from a foe.
What happened to that evil, spiteful, hateful and soulless Xraig
Chittlens that I used to know? The REAL Xraig was the kind of… .shall
we say… ‘entity’… .. that could move in next door to you and your lawn
would die! A genuine black spot on the ass-end of a 50 year old
malignant tumor we know today as 'leftist canker’.
Let me guess.... you finally gave up trolling and this is the real
you…? Well, it's not an improvement, if you'll allow me to be quite
frank about it. You're not even despicably mean or brutally vulgar
anymore. I always thought of you and I as being exceptionally keen in
this regard, but now I return to find that you're just like all the
rest…. superficial, one-dimensional and BORING.
Now go away. Go away and leave me alone. I shan't garnish you with any
more of that which you do so desperately crave but will never
understand… the wisdom off a righteous man.
The Nice Mean Man (I'll always spell it out for YOU, dear... |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! and forgivness of sin |
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On 20 Aug, 03:37, "jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com" <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Ac 16:15 - And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought
us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come
into
my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
When my two sons were born, they
were part of my household. I didn't
throw them out until they became
adults, and neither does God.
They took to the milk at
birth.
Jim
1Pe 2:2 - As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that
ye may grow thereby:
May I ask if you threw your children out
of your household, until they became
adults? If you didn't you are saying God
is worse than yoy?
|
Don't be silly now, take a look in a Baptist church if you want to see
what we do with our children! :-)
| Quote: | As for babies not being able to believe.
Mt 21:16 - And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus
saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes
and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
|
That still leaves the rest who do not.
All I am saying is that baptism makes more sense when it is something
you choose for yourself following faith. It is possible to believe
after baptism which makes baptism valid retrospectively (there is a
cite for this but I don't have time to look this morning.) It is faith
that matters most not rituals - Jesus criticised the people of his day
for loving rituals more than the truth. .
| Quote: | Jim
Mt 11:25 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O
Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things
from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. |
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bob young
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Darwin, Hitler, and the Culture of Death |
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flaviaR@verizon.net wrote:
| Quote: |
On 9-May-2008, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote:
Hitler believed in Hitler.
That's pretty much a prime example of an atheist.
Not exactly. An atheist specifcally believes "There is no G-d."
Hitler probably didn't care - he was as sick as they come.
Susan
"The Government, being resolved to undertake the political
and moral
purification of our public life, are creating and securing
the conditions
necessary for a really profound revival of religious life"
~ Adolph Hitler
"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the
Almighty Creator.
By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's
work."~ Adolph Hitler
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will
of the Almighty Creator."~ Adolph Hitler
"What we have to fight for...is the freedom and independence
of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill
the mission assigned to it by the Creator." ~ Adolph Hitler
As I have said elsewhere, Hitler was a consummate liar,
& claimed *many* things that were not true. He was
trying to get as much support as possible.
Susan
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Indeed he was but rergarding his gods, we will never know
for sure |
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Donna Kupp
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: the penitent thief on the cross |
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On Aug 13, 8:17 pm, "jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com"
<jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Lu 23:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Jim
1Co 1:17 - For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the
gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be
made of none effect.
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*******************************************************************************
THE PENITENT THIEF ON THE CROSS
In the matter of the penitent thief on the cross, the Father
revealed the Christ to him --just like he did to Peter ...
"He [Jesus] said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
And Simon Peter answered and said,
"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
And Jesus answered and said to him,
"Blessed are you, Simon Barjona,
because flesh and blood did not reveal {this} to you,
**but My Father who is in heaven.**
"And I also say to you that you are Peter,
and upon THIS ROCK I will build My church;
and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it."
Matt 16:15-18 (NAS)
"THIS ROCK" means believing that Jesus is The Christ.
Only those who have been **begotten by God** are able to
recognize Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.
The Father had given the thief gifts of faith and repentance!
Now, we will see how the thief had a living faith that
produced works in that compressed period of time before
he died.
1. He encouraged the other thief to "Fear God".
"One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, [Jesus]
saying, "Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!"
But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God,
since you are under the same sentence of condemnation"?
Luke 23:39-40 (RSV)
To "Fear God" is to morally revere God:
"Fear God, and keep his commandments:
for this is the whole duty of man.
For God shall bring every work into judgment,
with every secret thing, whether it be good,
or whether it be evil." Eccl 12:13 (KJV)
2. He acknowledged his sins ...
"And we indeed justly;
for we receive the due reward of our deeds:
but this man hath done nothing
amiss."
Luke 23:41 (KJV)
3. He called Jesus Christ "Lord", believed in the
resurrection and he wanted to enter the kingdom:
"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou
comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:42 (KJV)
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth
confession is made unto salvation." Rom 10:9-10 (KJV)
On the day of judgment, all men will be justifed or condemned
by the choices that they make --whether they have the
opportunity to do the deeds --or not.
"For God shall bring every work into judgment,
with every secret thing, whether it be good,
or whether it be evil." Eccl 12:13 (KJV)
For example, in the matter of adultery when Jesus said:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman
TO LUST
after her hath committed adultery
with her already in his heart." Matt
5:28 (KJV)
In that case, even though the man did not DO the deed, he
had the INTENT to do it if he had the opportunity. Jesus
is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart,
whether the secret choice is good or bad. In the case of the
thief on the cross, he had the INTENT to obey God but
lacked the opportunity to do it. Jesus said to him:
"Verily I say unto thee,
To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Luke 23:43 (KJV)
Donna Kupp
References: Luke 23:32-43
"...for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands
every plan and thought. If you seek Him, He will be
found by you; but if you forsake Him, he will cast you
off for ever." (1 Chronicles 28:9)
"Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they that keep the commandments of God,
and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12 (KJV)
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:15:12 +0100, "Martin" <martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:d9cla4tcvfsmfdrptl3d6sms6q4hl8tmae@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:14:59 +0100, "Martin"
martin1471spamfuck@outgun.com
wrote:
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course,
more
than the Church in theological matters. When they agree amongst
themselves
then we can worry, much like the history of the Church and Christendom.
We
should have stuck to the Latin and spared the grief.
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Hmmmm... probably because most people here express their beliefs without
fear or favour, and are not afraid to question tradition, superstition and
self-proclaimed 'authority'.
Yet turn to their own authority to declare truth?
In the respect of "God's Word", I personally accept nobody's, and no
organisation/church/cult/guru/prophet's (etc.etc) assurances or promises
that they have it exclusively, and all others are wrong - how incredibly
arrogant is that!
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It's your funeral to follow your own guide rather than God's lead.
| Quote: | Truth (in this respect) does not come from ancient, mistranslated,
questionable historical documents, nor from the tempting promises and sleek
words of modern day, self-proclaimed 'messiahs', it comes from the heart and
soul.
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Yet your heart, as mankind, is driven by the things of the flesh. Unless your
elective free choice is to God over flesh and self.
| Quote: | In other words, they might not hear what they want to hear. Jim seems to
find that all freedom of thought (religiously) is heretical, as is any
criticism of the CC.
Well, I don't know what Jim said. I think all Christians should buy a
copy of
the Catechism and read it. Most for the first time would find out how
scripture
all comes together, OT + NT, rather than see scripture as a bunch of
one-liners.
Jim (if you don't know of him) is a somewhat irascible and abrasive fellow,
who puts backs up and is not afraid to use insult and abuse to push his
points - even he would not disagree with that I suspect? He is therefore one
of the very worst choices to advocate anything at all, especially something
so indefensible as the Catholic church!
Others are not of course, and this is certainly not an "anti-Catholic"
place, some of us are just intolerant of intolerance. In fact, some of my
best friends are catholics...
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Some of my best friends are not.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Baptism is essential to salvation! |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:51:53 -0700 (PDT), claire.easthope@ntlworld.com wrote:
| Quote: | On 19 Aug, 12:45, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:14:59 +0100, "Martin" <martin1471spamf...@outgun.com
wrote:
You are wasting your time in here Duke. Cooper thinks he's a born again
intellectual, Jeffrey is insane and Claire is in dire need of a house
husband. The problem is they think they know, individually of course, more
than the Church in theological matters. When they agree amongst themselves
then we can worry, much like the history of the Church and Christendom. We
should have stuck to the Latin and spared the grief.
Tell me again why a Roman Catholic would be wasting his time here?
Hmmmm... probably because most people here express their beliefs without
fear or favour, and are not afraid to question tradition, superstition and
self-proclaimed 'authority'.
Yet turn to their own authority to declare truth?
I turn to the authority of the bible - bypassing all those hail-marys
etc gets you there a lot quicker!
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Here's your choice over the Hail Mary.
John 6:53-54 (New International Version)
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the
Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh
and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Will you go for it? And, please, don't try to make up fancy phrases for what
you THINK that might mean.
| Quote: | In other words, they might not hear what they want to hear. Jim seems to
find that all freedom of thought (religiously) is heretical, as is any
criticism of the CC.
Well, I don't know what Jim said. I think all Christians should buy a copy of
the Catechism and read it. Most for the first time would find out how scripture
all comes together, OT + NT, rather than see scripture as a bunch of one-liners.
We don't but there is some room for the holy spirit - we don't need
dogma for everything and anything! We can sleep easy at night not
knowing how many angels could dance on the head of a pin!
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John 6:53-54 is clearly scriptural.
Will you take it or leave it?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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