Donna Kupp
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 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: "The Vegetarian Returns!!! has an embarrassing predicament |
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"The Vegetarian Returns!!!" has an embarrassing predicament
Here, Ellen White claims that visions confirmed the present truth
swine food teaching of 1850:
"Last night [Jan 9, 1850]...Ellen had the following view in relation
to the Present Truth: 'I saw the paper, and that it was needed, that
souls were hungry for the truth that must be written in the paper...I
saw that God did not want James to stop yet, but he must write,
write, write, and speed the message and let it go." James White
Letter, Jan 10, 1850, p.51 (Messenger to the Remnant A.L. White,
p.49)
"I saw that James had not borne the burden alone, but that the
ANGELS OF GOD HAD ASSISTED and had oversight of the
paper." Vision at Paris, Maine 25 Dec 1850
According to the visions of Ellen White, God approved of the
present truth swine's flesh teaching of 1850 and the angels of God
assisted James and had oversight of the paper that said:
SWINES FLESH
.
"…But as we may not all see just alike as to what the Prophet
[Isaiah] teaches on this subject, let us come to the New Testament.
And what do we find? Certainly, if eating swine's flesh is a sin in
the sight of Heaven, in this dispensation, the New Testament has in
some way taught us the fact. But we find that the New Testament
does not, directly nor indirectly, teach any such thing."
"… But the New Testament so far from teaching that the use of
swine's flesh is wrong, that it affords good testimony that it is not
forbidden. First, take the case of the Apostle Peter, when God was
about to send him to preach to the Gentiles. His Jewish views and
feelings in relation to common and unclean beasts that did not part
the hoof and chew the cud, see Lev.xi, must first be removed
before he could see that God was no respecter of persons, and that
there was salvation for the Gentiles. "About the sixth hour,"
(noon,) "Peter went upon the housetop to pray." "He became very
hungry, and would have eaten;" and in this state "fell into a
trance."
The opening heavens discovered to him "a certain vessel"
descending, in which "were ALL MANNER of four-footed beast."
&c. Certainly, swine were there. The sudden appearance of these
beasts no doubt aroused Peter's Jewish feelings and prejudices for
he considered many of them "UNCLEAN." At this point "there
came a voice to him, Rise, Peter, kill and eat." But Peter said, "Not
so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or
UNCLEAN." This vision, and the connected circumstances, rid the
Apostle of his exclusive feelings, and opened the way for him to
preach to, and eat with the Gentiles."
"Now look at some of the trials of the apostolic church, on the
subject of eating with the Gentiles, and some other points of the
law of Moses, and the final decision of the conference of apostles
and elders assembled at Jerusalem. See Acts,chap.xv. Judaizing
teachers taught the churches that they, in order to be saved must
keep the law of Moses. This at once caused divisions among them,
and called forth the following from the Apostle Paul. "Let not him
that eateth, despise him that eateth not; and let not him which
eateth not, JUDGE him that eateth." See Rom.xiv,1-6. "Let no man
therefore JUDGE you in meat, &c." See Col.ii,14-17. The Gentile
converts used swine's flesh, and other meats which were
"abomination" to the Jews, while the converts from the Jewish
church were inclined to still follow the law of Moses in these
things, and were JUDGING the Gentile converts, and binding on
them burdens which the gospel did not require…Some of our good
brethren have added "swine's flesh" to the catalogue of things
forbidden by the Holy Ghost, and the apostles and elders
assembled at Jerusalem. But we feel called upon to protest against
such a course, as being contrary to the plain teaching of the holy
scriptures. Shall we lay a greater "burden" on the disciples than
seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and the holy apostles of our Lord
Jesus Christ? God forbid. Their decision, being right, settled the
question with them, and was a cause of rejoicing among the
churches, and it should forever settle the question with us."
THE PRESENT TRUTH. VOL. I. - PARIS, ME.,. NOVEMBER,
1850. - NO. 11 James White *
Since Ellen White testified that visions confirmed that God
approved of the present truth SWINE FLESH teaching of 1850 and
that angels of God assisted James and had oversight of the paper,
that puts "The Vegetarian Returns!!!" in an embarrassing position
for saying this:
"...We know biblically speaking, GOD WOULD NEVER PERMIT
HIS PEOPLE TO EAT PORK, BUT THEY WERE BLINDED."**
The irony is overwhelming – when the early Adventists stuck with the
Bible they were certain that eating flesh meat – even swine's flesh
was not a sin.
Jesus ate flesh-meat; the apostles ate flesh-meat; --and none of
them taught that vegetarianism is a requirement for salvation. THE
GOSPEL OF HEALTH REFORM IS ANOTHER GOSPEL"*** and
it directly contradicts the teaching of Jesus Christ, the apostles
and THE PRESENT TRUTH TEACHING OF 1850.
Donna Kupp
* The entire article is found at:
http://www.presentdaytruth.com/books/present-truth/present-truth-vol1...
** Holy Sow--You Gotta Read This - July 25
*** "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER
GOSPEL unto you THAN THAT WHICH WE HAVE
PREACHED UNTO YOU, let him be accursed. As we said
before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto
you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED ."
Galatians 1:8-9
dk
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info |
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vegie
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: "The Vegetarian Returns!!! has an embarrassing predicame |
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1858 when Pork was not a test
What kind of people were Adventists in 1858? What light did they have in
regard to the diet question? Many will think, they can eat clean meats;
"Those who labor with their hands must nourish their strength to perform his
labor, and those also who labor in word and doctrine must nourish their
strength; for Satan and his evil angels are warring against them to tear
down their strength. They should seek rest of body and mind from wearing
labor when they can, and should eat of nourishing, strengthening food to
build up their strength; for they will be obliged to exercise all the
strength they have. I saw that it does not glorify God in the least for any
of His people to make a time of trouble for themselves. There is a time of
trouble just before God's people, and He will prepare them for that fearful
conflict." {1T 206.2}
They should eat good nourishing food to build up their strength. There is a
time of trouble coming, we should make a time of trouble prematurely. Now
what type of good nourishing food did Sr White say we should have;
"I saw that your views concerning swine's flesh would prove no injury if you
have them to yourselves; but in your judgment and opinion you have made this
question a test, and your actions have plainly shown your faith in this
matter. If God requires His people to abstain from swine's flesh, He will
convict them on the matter. He is just as willing to show His honest
children their duty, as to show their duty to individuals upon whom He has
not laid the burden of His work. If it is the duty of the church to abstain
from swine's flesh, God will discover it to more than two or three. He will
teach His church their duty." {1T 206.3}
What happens there? In 1858 we must have nourishing food, and one of those
good nourishing foods is PORK! That's right, and in your judgement you have
made pork eating a test. To be a good SDA in 1858, you kept the Sabbath and
you also ate pork. It was good nourishing food.
So, when individuals were making the issue of pork a test, it was premature.
Was there anything wrong with their doctrine? No.
In the foot note James White wrote;
[THIS REMARKABLE TESTIMONY WAS WRITTEN OCTOBER 21, 1858, NEARLY FIVE YEARS
BEFORE THE GREAT VISION OF 1863, IN WHICH THE LIGHT UPON HEALTH REFORM WAS
GIVEN. WHEN THE RIGHT TIME CAME, THE SUBJECT WAS GIVEN IN A MANNER TO MOVE
ALL OUR PEOPLE. HOW WONDERFUL ARE THE WISDOM AND GOODNESS OF GOD! IT MIGHT
BE AS WRONG TO CROWD THE MILK, SALT, AND SUGAR QUESTION NOW, AS THE PORK
QUESTION IN 1858.-- J.W., NOTE TO SECOND EDITION.] FOOTNOTE. 1T 206.
When would that time come? When would the time come to give up pork? We
know biblically speaking, God would never permit his people to eat pork, but
they were blinded.
1844 Egyptian blindness
They were coming out of Egyptian blindness. They left Egypt in 1844 and God
was educating his people. When would be the time when God would say pork
was not for his people?
"God is leading out a people, not a few separate individuals here and there,
one believing this thing, another that. Angels of God are doing the work
committed to their trust. The third angel is leading out and purifying a
people, and they should move with him unitedly. Some run ahead of the angels
that are leading this people; but they have to retrace every step, and
meekly follow no faster than the angels lead. I saw that the angels of God
would lead His people no faster than they could receive and act upon the
important truths that are communicated to them." {1T 207.1}
God is going to reveal himself to his people as fast as they are able to
bear it.
"But some restless spirits do not more than half do up their work. As the
angel leads them, they get in haste for something new, and rush on without
divine guidance, and thus bring confusion and discord into the ranks. They
do not speak or act in harmony with the body. I saw that you both must
speedily be brought where you are willing to be led, instead of desiring to
lead, or Satan will step in and lead you in his way, to follow his counsel.
Some look at your set notions, and consider them an evidence of humility.
They are deceived. You both are making work for repentance." {1T 207.1}
Can you believe it? These people were making work for repentance and they
were telling people not to eat pork. That was a bible doctrine, but what
was wrong? The wrong was the timing, it was premature.
It was only as Gods people were able to bear that light that it became an
issue.
This paragraph gives the important reason when pork was to be made a testing
issue.
Sacred things would not be discerned from eating pork.
"God has given you light and knowledge, which you have professed to believe
came direct from Him, instructing you to deny appetite. You know that the
use of swine's flesh is contrary to His express command, given not because
He wished to especially show His authority, but because it would be
injurious to those who should eat it. Its use would cause the blood to
become impure, so that scrofula and other humors would corrupt the system,
and the whole organism would suffer. Especially would the fine, sensitive
nerves of the brain become enfeebled and so beclouded that sacred things
would not be discerned, but be placed upon the low level with common things.
Light showing that disease is caused by using this gross article of food has
come just as soon as God's people could bear it. Have you heeded the light?"
{2T 96.2}
When did the light come? Only when Gods people were able to bear it. When
they were unable to bear it, it was premature and they were told to repent
of that message.
1905 When pork became a test
"The tissues of the swine swarm with parasites. Of the swine God said, "It
is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead
carcass." Deuteronomy 14:8. This command was given because swine's flesh is
unfit for food. Swine are scavengers, and this is the only use they were
intended to serve. Never, under any circumstances, was their flesh to be
eaten by human beings. It is impossible for the flesh of any living creature
to be wholesome when filth is its natural element and when it feeds upon
every detestable thing." {MH 313.3}
We have learned some very important lessons in regards to the use of Swines
flesh although we are clearly taught we are not to make this point a test
back in 1858, there must come a time when it is a test. That time came when
the people of God were able to bear the light. God gave the light for their
own benefit, not to punish them. He revealed it to his church.
"Donna Kupp" <dkupp@charter.net> wrote in message
news:508b1db7-6aa4-4e2e-ae4d-32d962f70a8d@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
"The Vegetarian Returns!!!" has an embarrassing predicament
Here, Ellen White claims that visions confirmed the present truth
swine food teaching of 1850:
"Last night [Jan 9, 1850]...Ellen had the following view in relation
to the Present Truth: 'I saw the paper, and that it was needed, that
souls were hungry for the truth that must be written in the paper...I
saw that God did not want James to stop yet, but he must write,
write, write, and speed the message and let it go." James White
Letter, Jan 10, 1850, p.51 (Messenger to the Remnant A.L. White,
p.49)
"I saw that James had not borne the burden alone, but that the
ANGELS OF GOD HAD ASSISTED and had oversight of the
paper." Vision at Paris, Maine 25 Dec 1850
According to the visions of Ellen White, God approved of the
present truth swine's flesh teaching of 1850 and the angels of God
assisted James and had oversight of the paper that said:
SWINES FLESH
..
"…But as we may not all see just alike as to what the Prophet
[Isaiah] teaches on this subject, let us come to the New Testament.
And what do we find? Certainly, if eating swine's flesh is a sin in
the sight of Heaven, in this dispensation, the New Testament has in
some way taught us the fact. But we find that the New Testament
does not, directly nor indirectly, teach any such thing."
"… But the New Testament so far from teaching that the use of
swine's flesh is wrong, that it affords good testimony that it is not
forbidden. First, take the case of the Apostle Peter, when God was
about to send him to preach to the Gentiles. His Jewish views and
feelings in relation to common and unclean beasts that did not part
the hoof and chew the cud, see Lev.xi, must first be removed
before he could see that God was no respecter of persons, and that
there was salvation for the Gentiles. "About the sixth hour,"
(noon,) "Peter went upon the housetop to pray." "He became very
hungry, and would have eaten;" and in this state "fell into a
trance."
The opening heavens discovered to him "a certain vessel"
descending, in which "were ALL MANNER of four-footed beast."
&c. Certainly, swine were there. The sudden appearance of these
beasts no doubt aroused Peter's Jewish feelings and prejudices for
he considered many of them "UNCLEAN." At this point "there
came a voice to him, Rise, Peter, kill and eat." But Peter said, "Not
so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or
UNCLEAN." This vision, and the connected circumstances, rid the
Apostle of his exclusive feelings, and opened the way for him to
preach to, and eat with the Gentiles."
"Now look at some of the trials of the apostolic church, on the
subject of eating with the Gentiles, and some other points of the
law of Moses, and the final decision of the conference of apostles
and elders assembled at Jerusalem. See Acts,chap.xv. Judaizing
teachers taught the churches that they, in order to be saved must
keep the law of Moses. This at once caused divisions among them,
and called forth the following from the Apostle Paul. "Let not him
that eateth, despise him that eateth not; and let not him which
eateth not, JUDGE him that eateth." See Rom.xiv,1-6. "Let no man
therefore JUDGE you in meat, &c." See Col.ii,14-17. The Gentile
converts used swine's flesh, and other meats which were
"abomination" to the Jews, while the converts from the Jewish
church were inclined to still follow the law of Moses in these
things, and were JUDGING the Gentile converts, and binding on
them burdens which the gospel did not require…Some of our good
brethren have added "swine's flesh" to the catalogue of things
forbidden by the Holy Ghost, and the apostles and elders
assembled at Jerusalem. But we feel called upon to protest against
such a course, as being contrary to the plain teaching of the holy
scriptures. Shall we lay a greater "burden" on the disciples than
seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and the holy apostles of our Lord
Jesus Christ? God forbid. Their decision, being right, settled the
question with them, and was a cause of rejoicing among the
churches, and it should forever settle the question with us."
THE PRESENT TRUTH. VOL. I. - PARIS, ME.,. NOVEMBER,
1850. - NO. 11 James White *
Since Ellen White testified that visions confirmed that God
approved of the present truth SWINE FLESH teaching of 1850 and
that angels of God assisted James and had oversight of the paper,
that puts "The Vegetarian Returns!!!" in an embarrassing position
for saying this:
"...We know biblically speaking, GOD WOULD NEVER PERMIT
HIS PEOPLE TO EAT PORK, BUT THEY WERE BLINDED."**
The irony is overwhelming – when the early Adventists stuck with the
Bible they were certain that eating flesh meat – even swine's flesh
was not a sin.
Jesus ate flesh-meat; the apostles ate flesh-meat; --and none of
them taught that vegetarianism is a requirement for salvation. THE
GOSPEL OF HEALTH REFORM IS ANOTHER GOSPEL"*** and
it directly contradicts the teaching of Jesus Christ, the apostles
and THE PRESENT TRUTH TEACHING OF 1850.
Donna Kupp
* The entire article is found at:
http://www.presentdaytruth.com/books/present-truth/present-truth-vol1...
** Holy Sow--You Gotta Read This - July 25
*** "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER
GOSPEL unto you THAN THAT WHICH WE HAVE
PREACHED UNTO YOU, let him be accursed. As we said
before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto
you than that ye have received, LET HIM BE ACCURSED ."
Galatians 1:8-9
dk
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info |
|
