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 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Limits of Theistic Abilities, Echo, Fake Conversations |
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On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:48:33 -0400, Thom Madura <Tommadura@optonline.net> wrote:
| Quote: | dh@. wrote:
On 28 May 2008 16:04:38 GMT, nocTifer <yronwode.com@nagasiva> wrote:
dh@. writes:
Thom Madura <Tommadura@optonline.net> wrote:
thanks for putting your finger on the esential weakness of dh's approach:
dh:
I point out things that some people don't want to
think about. It's what I do.
you distract, make things up, pretend they're facts,
Which of the facts that I point out do you feel are
not facts?
and
intrude where you are not wanted.
You guys are supposed to be attacking me and
all that, and glad for the opportunity.
it's what you do.
Thom:
Fine - how do you determine which gods are real and which are fake?
my response:
the real ones will have some evidence in the real world.
we should be able to sense them in some way,
There's no reason to believe that though, so how
can you?
whether secondarily,
as when they possess someone,
There may be plenty of that going on.
or tertially, as when they have an
interaction with another we interview. ideally of course we will
be possessed ourselves
If it's all for real then there's an excellent chance that Satan
has much control over the minds of those who disbelieve in
his existence. It makes sense that they would be who he has
the most control over...it makes sense in general because it's
what would be most likely, and it makes sense when we consider
some of the peculiarities of such people like denying their own
faith, being unable to appreciate the difference between
strong and weak atheism, and feeling threatened by the fact
that all we can ever have is our own interpretation of things, etc.
and remember the incident (more common
than people realize) or will have conversations with the deity
and thereby reduce the distance to the observation of the god.
Wouldn't that be lots of fun ¦¬) Well...maybe...maybe not (:¬|)
We don't know if we'd really like the results if that were to happen
or not, but the whole idea is childlike and naive anyway. It's very
much like a little child demanding to drive the car, over and over
again... It looks like it's not going to happen, quite possibly for
very good reason, so maybe it's time to just accept the fact and
move away from such an idea.
If there is a creator then everyone who thinks about him is
considering the same being regardless of what they call him
or what they think about him, or them...
no determination there. there are millions of stories about
gods who made everything. there is no evidence for creation.
We sure don't know that.
Give examples of those you chose NOT to believe - and tell us why?
If there is a creator then you're really asking me to say which
beliefs I think are wrong,
no examples there.
which is certainly far beyond what any
strong atheist would be able to think about in a realistic way
again displaying your real interest: trolling for atheists.
How could you have any real thoughts about which
religious beliefs should be considered and which should
be discarded, when you discard them all?
you're having discussions with theists who are outpacing you.
Good enough. How about some examples of that?
since they necessarily must think all of them are wrong and
therefore would be clueless about how to comprehend making
any such distinction.
talking about atheists, not gods.
I pointed out one of the restrictions imposed by strong
atheism.
What you've actually asked for is something you can't
even comprehend,
you're beginning to sound like a reflection tool. you're
repeating things from conversations you have been involved
with through the course of the previous months. it is very
obvious to those of us whom you are mimicking. it's almost
like one of those bots that is 'semi-AI' and can have a
very rudimentary conversation by repeating or echoing.
The same sort of patterns keep being repeated.
Strong atheists try to encourage faith in something
they deny having faith in themselves, even when
they make it obvious that they have such faith.
Strong atheists ask for things it looks fairly obvious
they aren't going to get, and then try to say not
getting it provides knowledge that God doesn't
exist. Now you're asking for distinctions between
which beliefs should be considered seriously and
which should not, even though you can't consider
any of them, so why even ask?
because it involves considering
things which are outside of your mental comfort zone and you
are therefore unable to think about.
no examples there.
Everything to do with the possibility of God's existence
is an example. Everything. You would have to change your
whole way of thinking in order to change that.
what you're really doing is telling us
that this is outside of your mental comfort zone and that
you are really incapable of thinking about it (reducing
the number of 'real' gods through knowledge-construction).
No. I told you I consider the possibility that you cling
to and more. You get left behind as soon as "we" start
to consider more than you're capable of. So to consider
anything in regards to the possibility of God's existence
leaves you out immediately. Can't you understand that
either?
No
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Then you haven't gotten as far as the basics yet,
and quite possibly (more than likely actually) never
will.
No, I'm not, meaning that you are.
| Quote: | The first thing theists try to say when they talk to a non-believe is
that there are MORE ways of proving god exists that an "atheist" can
think of.
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I've never known a theist to say there is any way to prove
it, and certainly don't know of any examples of them trying to
do it.
| Quote: | However - that a god exists is not an atheists statement - it is a
theists statement. It is for a theist to prove it. If there are ways of
proving it = bring them on. Most of the recognized great minds of the
time are not religious. Let me see something that you could prove to them.
But you are just bluffing again - as Albert Einstein said - religious
beliefs are just childish superstitions.
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Was he referring to his own as well or did he consider his to
be different in that respect somehow, like everyone else does?
| Quote: | Still - it is not just proving a god may exist - but the god of religion
exists - which is infinitely harder.
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If there's a creator then all who refer to him refer to the same
being(s) regardless of what they think about him or what they
call him.
| Quote: | In that case - the theists have made strong cases against every god and
every religion. Atheists can simply stand by and watch - because there
is no god left to believe in anyway.
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You have no idea, and haven't even begun to think about
the possibilities in a realistic way. To feel so certain that no
intelligent beings have had any influence on the development
of life on any planets in the universe is below the level of
realistic thinking, but there you remain clinging to that belief
no differently than theists cling to theirs. |
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