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Susan
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 Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: What are Baha'i Writings? |
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On Sep 29, 10:44 pm, Sizwe Cawe <sc...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Dear Mr McAdam
ng God as "He" (or "She") seems to be a quirk of Indo-Germanic language
s. |
Not really. Persian is an Indo-European language, yet it has no
gender. Semitic languages like Arabic, however, require them. English
(a Germanic language) requires less gender identification than Romance
languages like Spanish. |
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Douglas McAdam
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Alcohol Was: Re: God's Side? |
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God bless you Bill. Nice to hear from you again.
As I said, I have been clean for 40 yrs but it took me a long, long
time to get over the bad thinking and damage to my body. It took
proper nutrition, a lot of therapy from application of the Writings in
a special process which we now use in our SED project for Troubled
Youth and Adult Offenders and the result of the combination of study,
application and teaching.
You example is something to consider because our society so values
these harmful products that they will support a radio station that
promotes them but not one that is promoting good physical, mental and
spiritual health.
Keep up the good work,
doug
On Sep 30, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Bill Hyman wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Doug:
It took me 6 months to quit my beer after I became a Baha'i.
Nowadays I run the only FCC approved television station South of the
equator
and could get rich if I advertised alcoholic products because there
is so
much funding for beer advertising, especially in sports advertising.
As a
consequence of my not pushing this drug most distributors will not
advertise
any of their other products with me, so my station (K11UU Pago Pago)
runs on
a shoe string, but I am happy, and Baha'u'llah's name is well known,
and
respected.
Bill |
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Douglas McAdam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: Re: What are Baha'i Writings? |
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If Baha'u'llah used "He" when revealing in Arabic, then He would mean
the same thing in Persian if there was a gender equivalent wouldn't
He? Why didn't He say "She" in Arabic?
doug
On Oct 1, 2008, at 12:10 PM, Susan wrote:
| Quote: | On Sep 29, 10:44 pm, Sizwe Cawe <sc...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Dear Mr McAdam
ng God as "He" (or "She") seems to be a quirk of Indo-Germanic
language
s.
Not really. Persian is an Indo-European language, yet it has no
gender. Semitic languages like Arabic, however, require them. English
(a Germanic language) requires less gender identification than Romance
languages like Spanish.
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Bill Hyman
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: Re: thousand years as one day, but why Christianity and Isla |
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Hi Albert:
It is my opinion that the quote you offered from selected writings of
Abdu'l-Baha refers only to revelators after Baha'u'llah.
Bill
| Quote: |
On Oct 7, 1:34 pm, "celestial.tree.of.l...@gmail.com"
celestial.tree.of.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
Recently a question was brought up and I don't know the answer for
it:
it has been revealed in Quran : 32:5: that the cause of god is
returned in a day. a day that is thousand years. But the duration of
Christianity is only 621 years?
Thanks in advance for your time.
Omid
Omid,
'Abdu'l-Baha speaks to your question. Here is a quote from the middle
of his explanation.
"It is possible, however, that after the completion of a full thousand
years, certain Holy Beings will be empowered to deliver a Revelation:
this, however, will not be through a Universal Manifestation.
Wherefore every day of the cycle of the Blessed Beauty is in reality
equal to one year, and every year of it is equal to a thousand
years.. . ."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 67- 69)
Regards,
Albert
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tsuki190
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: Re: No politics in Baha'i Faith? |
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It means several things.
First in our internal elections there are no nominations, no campaigning,
no attempts to influence how others vote, and no statements of support
for individuals for any elected position. This means that the greatest
source of factionalism and disunity in the civil community is not a part of
the Baha'i community.
Second it means that the Baha'i community does not take an official
position on specific partisan issues. As an example the US Baha'i
community would not take a position on whether a specific bill should
be passed in Congress or on who should be elected to an office.
A bill might involve the status or rights of women in the US or in some
other country. We would not take an official position on that specific
bill. We would make statements about the necessity for establishing
the rights and opportunities for women in society. Society will not
rapidly advance in spiritual ways until rights and opportunities for
women are fully established.
Regarding situations in specific countries, it is more difficult. Look at
how the Baha'is acted in South Africa during apartheid, in Germany
before and during WW2, and in Russia when Stalin banned the Baha'i
Faith. Then look at the statements that the Baha'is have issued on
the persecution of Baha'is in Iran (where the government policy is to
destroy the Baha'i community completely) and in Egypt. These are
situations directly affecting the Baha'is.
You may want to explore the reasons for the way the Baha'is deal
with injustices in the world. This forum would be a suitable place to
do that.
Tom
On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:58 PM, mike3 <mike4ty4@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi.
I'm curious: what exactly is meant by "politics being prohibited" in
the Baha'i Faith? Does this mean it is bad, for example, for a Baha'i
to critique a government supporting the massacreing of millions of
innocent children in cold blood? Like if there was some government out
there that decided to legalize child killing and encouraged its
citizens to kill. Would it be "mortal sin" for a Baha'i to speak out
against this government's actions, and criticize it? Something that
would make "God punish them" if they insisted on it? Even if they
don't go and pledge some sort of allegiance to a particular political
group?
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raturvey@yahoo.co.uk
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: No politics in Baha'i Faith? |
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On Nov 2, 8:04 pm, tsuki190 <tsuki...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | It means several things.
Second it means that the Baha'i community does not take an official
position on specific partisan issues. As an example the US Baha'i
community would not take a position on whether a specific bill should
be passed in Congress ...
A bill might involve the status or rights of women in the US or in some
other country. We would not take an official position on that specific
bill. We would make statements about the necessity for establishing
the rights and opportunities for women in society. Society will not
rapidly advance in spiritual ways until rights and opportunities for
women are fully established.
|
I think you need to be very careful when making statements like these,
as in certain circumstances they wont always hold. I can think of at
least three instances where the National Spiritual Assembly (NSA) (the
governing body) of the Baha'is of the UK have taken a stance in
specific support of a legislative proposal:
1) The bill ratifying the International Criminal Court - the NSA wrote
to every Baha'i community asking them to contact their MP asking them
to support this
2) An inititive providing for the prosecution in Britain of "child sex
tourists" - i.e. British nationals who holiday in Thailand etc. for
the purpose of child sex tourism was promoted by the NSA
3) They supported, with other faith groups, the criminalisation of
"incitement to religious hatred" - a proposal that was very
controversial with writers, comics and actors coming out against it.
What is certainly true is that Baha'is tend to avoid topics that are
divisive, particularly ones that set certain interest groups against
another. In many ways this is the "bread and butter" of politics and
Baha'is seek to avoid involvement in things like this. |
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Douglas McAdam
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: Re: No politics in Baha'i Faith? |
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I think there is a difference between an Institution saying things and
an individual. I seem to recall a directive saying we we should not
identify ourselves as Baha'is and thus creating the idea that what we
say is an official Baha'i stance.
regards,
doug
On Dec 7, 2008, at 4:09 PM, raturvey@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 2, 8:04 pm, tsuki190 <tsuki...@gmail.com> wrote:
It means several things.
Second it means that the Baha'i community does not take an official
position on specific partisan issues. As an example the US Baha'i
community would not take a position on whether a specific bill should
be passed in Congress ...
A bill might involve the status or rights of women in the US or in
some
other country. We would not take an official position on that
specific
bill. We would make statements about the necessity for establishing
the rights and opportunities for women in society. Society will not
rapidly advance in spiritual ways until rights and opportunities for
women are fully established.
I think you need to be very careful when making statements like these,
as in certain circumstances they wont always hold. I can think of at
least three instances where the National Spiritual Assembly (NSA) (the
governing body) of the Baha'is of the UK have taken a stance in
specific support of a legislative proposal:
1) The bill ratifying the International Criminal Court - the NSA wrote
to every Baha'i community asking them to contact their MP asking them
to support this
2) An inititive providing for the prosecution in Britain of "child sex
tourists" - i.e. British nationals who holiday in Thailand etc. for
the purpose of child sex tourism was promoted by the NSA
3) They supported, with other faith groups, the criminalisation of
"incitement to religious hatred" - a proposal that was very
controversial with writers, comics and actors coming out against it.
What is certainly true is that Baha'is tend to avoid topics that are
divisive, particularly ones that set certain interest groups against
another. In many ways this is the "bread and butter" of politics and
Baha'is seek to avoid involvement in things like this.
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mike3
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: Re: No politics in Baha'i Faith? |
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On Dec 7, 2:09 pm, "ratur...@yahoo.co.uk" <ratur...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Nov 2, 8:04 pm, tsuki190 <tsuki...@gmail.com> wrote:
It means several things.
Second it means that the Baha'i community does not take an official
position on specific partisan issues. As an example the US Baha'i
community would not take a position on whether a specific bill should
be passed in Congress ...
A bill might involve the status or rights of women in the US or in some
other country. We would not take an official position on that specif
ic
bill. We would make statements about the necessity for establishing
the rights and opportunities for women in society. Society will not
rapidly advance in spiritual ways until rights and opportunities for
women are fully established.
I think you need to be very careful when making statements like these,
as in certain circumstances they wont always hold. I can think of at
least three instances where the National Spiritual Assembly (NSA) (the
governing body) of the Baha'is of the UK have taken a stance in
specific support of a legislative proposal:
1) The bill ratifying the International Criminal Court - the NSA wrote
to every Baha'i community asking them to contact their MP asking them
to support this
2) An inititive providing for the prosecution in Britain of "child sex
tourists" - i.e. British nationals who holiday in Thailand etc. for
the purpose of child sex tourism was promoted by the NSA
3) They supported, with other faith groups, the criminalisation of
"incitement to religious hatred" - a proposal that was very
controversial with writers, comics and actors coming out against it.
What is certainly true is that Baha'is tend to avoid topics that are
divisive, particularly ones that set certain interest groups against
another. In many ways this is the "bread and butter" of politics and
Baha'is seek to avoid involvement in things like this.
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Is there absolutely no way to discuss those topics or issues in a non-
divisive manner _at all_? |
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Douglas McAdam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: No politics in Baha'i Faith? |
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Personally I believe we need to be careful about discussing partisan
political matters.
However I also believe that if we follow the principle of true
consultation we can just about discuss anything. Unfortunately in
today's society most people have been raised with a "win at all cost",
"either/or", "right/wrong", "pro/con" type of debate style and as we
have witnessed this causes a lot of problems.
At the moment I am seeing signs of the complete disintegration of the
existing old world systems and we probably need to be careful as to
not become embroiled in trying to save it all for it can drag us down
with it.
What might be a good idea for now is to discuss what the Baha'i
principle of consultation means, how to do it, what is its purpose,
etc. and then maybe look at some of the quotes regarding what topics
we should avoid.
regards,
doug
On Dec 10, 2008, at 8:26 PM, mike3 wrote:
| Quote: | What is certainly true is that Baha'is tend to avoid topics that are
divisive, particularly ones that set certain interest groups against
another. In many ways this is the "bread and butter" of politics and
Baha'is seek to avoid involvement in things like this.
Is there absolutely no way to discuss those topics or issues in a non-
divisive manner _at all_? |
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raturvey@yahoo.co.uk
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:40 am Post subject: Old world order systems? |
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On Dec 11 2008, 4:40 pm, Douglas McAdam <douglasmca...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
.....
| Quote: | At the moment I am seeing signs of the complete disintegration of the
existing old world systems and we probably need to be careful as to
not become embroiled in trying to save it all for it can drag us down
with it.
..... |
I've heard this a few times but I still wonder what, specifically,
people are referring to. What signs are you seeing? What systems are
"old world" and how do you tell which are "new world"? How do you
distinguish between the two?
Andrew |
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tsuki190
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Old world order systems? |
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I would call the recent credit/housing bubble an example of the old world
order having trouble. We had many millions of people being encouraged
to borrow money that they couldn't repay (houses, cars, credit card debt).
Add to that some of the financial instruments that are now being unwound
and we have severe problems in the old world order.
Tom
On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 5:40 PM, raturvey@yahoo.co.uk
<raturvey@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | On Dec 11 2008, 4:40 pm, Douglas McAdam <douglasmca...@sbcglobal.net
wrote:
....
At the moment I am seeing signs of the complete disintegration of the
existing old world systems and we probably need to be careful as to
not become embroiled in trying to save it all for it can drag us down
with it.
....
I've heard this a few times but I still wonder what, specifically,
people are referring to. What signs are you seeing? What systems are
"old world" and how do you tell which are "new world"? How do you
distinguish between the two?
Andrew
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Douglas McAdam
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Old world order systems? |
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Hi Andrew-
Our existing economic systems, our governing systems, our social
systems are all defective and collapsing. The new systems are
evolving but we don't as yet know the specifics. For example we
Baha'is are building a New World Order, a World Commonwealth and we
have some ideas about how we will have a sort of Federalist System
whereby we will have Local Houses of Justice, National Houses of
Justice and finally a World House of Justice. We will see nations
with their own national police to police their borders but we also
will have a world organization of somekind, i.e. something that
applies the collective security principle. We have the Covenant so
there is no danger of splitting into sects. We have an Administrative
Order. We have Teachings, Laws, principles, etc. that give us the
ability to bring about a whole new system whereby religion and science
are united, where the Holy Spirit is flowing through this
Administration and individuals are engaged in service to God and
humanity, graduated income tax, profit sharing, employee owned
businesses, equal education and all the other wonderful things we are
learning to apply. But it all depends on the individuals acquiring
virtues in service to God and humanity currently and on into the
future. I don't think anyone yet can envision the overall system, its
parts and how it works but the Beloved Guardian gave us some good
overviews in his World Order Letters.
peace,
doug
On Jan 1, 2009, at 8:40 PM, raturvey@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
| Quote: | On Dec 11 2008, 4:40 pm, Douglas McAdam <douglasmca...@sbcglobal.net
wrote:
....
At the moment I am seeing signs of the complete disintegration of the
existing old world systems and we probably need to be careful as to
not become embroiled in trying to save it all for it can drag us down
with it.
....
I've heard this a few times but I still wonder what, specifically,
people are referring to. What signs are you seeing? What systems are
"old world" and how do you tell which are "new world"? How do you
distinguish between the two?
Andrew |
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compx2
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Old world order systems? |
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Hi Doug,
| Quote: | Our existing economic systems, our governing systems, our social
systems are all defective and collapsing...
|
Nope, nope, and certainly not.
There is no perfect system, and the Baha'i system was never meant to
be a world government, and it will never be a world government. Those
Baha'is who think it so are literalist fundamentalists like so many
Christian, Muslim and Jew before them.
The Baha'i Faith is concerned with teaching the spiritual principles
which guide all right decisions. Most Baha'is, however, delude
themselves into thinking we have a magic system. Well, we do, but
that magic system is universal, available to anyone, even people who
choose not to call God by His new name.
Most Baha'is are no better at magic than anyone else, however.
--Kent
On Jan 1, 11:14 pm, Douglas McAdam <douglasmca...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Andrew-
Our existing economic systems, our governing systems, our social
systems are all defective and collapsing. The new systems are
evolving but we don't as yet know the specifics. For example we
Baha'is are building a New World Order, a World Commonwealth and we
have some ideas about how we will have a sort of Federalist System
whereby we will have Local Houses of Justice, National Houses of
Justice and finally a World House of Justice. We will see nations
with their own national police to police their borders but we also
will have a world organization of somekind, i.e. something that
applies the collective security principle. We have the Covenant so
there is no danger of splitting into sects. We have an Administrative
Order. We have Teachings, Laws, principles, etc. that give us the
ability to bring about a whole new system whereby religion and science
are united, where the Holy Spirit is flowing through this
Administration and individuals are engaged in service to God and
humanity, graduated income tax, profit sharing, employee owned
businesses, equal education and all the other wonderful things we are
learning to apply. But it all depends on the individuals acquiring
virtues in service to God and humanity currently and on into the
future. I don't think anyone yet can envision the overall system, its
parts and how it works but the Beloved Guardian gave us some good
overviews in his World Order Letters.
peace,
doug
On Jan 1, 2009, at 8:40 PM, ratur...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On Dec 11 2008, 4:40 pm, Douglas McAdam <douglasmca...@sbcglobal.net
wrote:
....
At the moment I am seeing signs of the complete disintegration of the
existing old world systems and we probably need to be careful as to
not become embroiled in trying to save it all for it can drag us down
with it.
....
I've heard this a few times but I still wonder what, specifically,
people are referring to. What signs are you seeing? What systems are
"old world" and how do you tell which are "new world"? How do you
distinguish between the two?
Andrew- Hide quoted text -
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Susan
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: Re: Old world order systems? |
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| Quote: | There is no perfect system, and the Baha'i system was never meant to
be a world government, and it will never be a world government. Those
Baha'is who think it so are literalist fundamentalists like so many
Christian, Muslim and Jew before them.
|
Literalist, fundamentalist, huh, Kent?
Sounds like you acknowledge that the Writings are "literally" saying
just the opposite of what you suggest, and accusing Baha'is who accept
those passages of being fundamentalist literalists is a good strategy
to dismiss them.
However, Baha'i institutions are not likely to merge with current
governments for a long, long time. In the meantime we need to consider
how best Baha'is can contribute to the betterment of the world in the
here and now. |
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raturvey@yahoo.co.uk
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Old world order systems? |
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On Jan 2, 4:06 am, tsuki190 <tsuki...@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I would call the recent credit/housing bubble an example of the old world
order having trouble. We had many millions of people being encouraged
to borrow money that they couldn't repay (houses, cars, credit card debt)
...
Add to that some of the financial instruments that are now being unwound
and we have severe problems in the old world order.
|
Hi Tom,
Thanks for your example - I like it and personally agree. I can see
many ways in which good old fashioned vices of greed, materialism,
unsustainability and disunity - in the particular sense of the global
systemic consequences of decisions not being properly prioritised -
being at the root of these financial problems we're having (by way of
context, I should explain I work in the Treasury of a Bank, so to a
certain explain I understand how we're to blame here).
However, there are also elements of the response which Baha'is can see
as being very "New World Order". The colleges of supervisors proposed
are the very first time that businesses have been regulated at the
global level. Cooperation between countries - specifically the central
banks of countries - has been unprecedented. Any students of history
will tell you that the Great Depression of the thirties was largely
caused by the beggar-thy-neighbour protectionist response of
governments to recession - a huge contrast to the response today.
So actually I see both processes happening simultaneously in this
crisis. I don't at all subscribe to the view that all of society is
evil and we should withdraw from it which some seem to imply.
What I am interested in is how should we understand the events we're
witnessing? What specific criteria do people use? Simply saying
anything that goes wrong is the old world order decaying is not
particularly intellectually rigorous and doesn't really stand up to
scrutiny.
Andrew |
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