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 Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:17 pm Post subject: The Dagda, Irish God of Druids |
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Searles O'Dubhain
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: The Dagda, Irish God of Druids |
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"1X2 Willows" <willows@@euro-celts.com [fight Sp@m]> wrote in message news:<f4wJa.61097$Io.5708342@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
| Quote: | "Searles O'Dubhain" <odubhain@comcast.net> wrote
"David Monks" <dmon1@tiscali.fr> wrote
Hi Jim,
Don't you mean: "how many druids can you needle?" :-)
David
If Christians can get a camel through the eye of a needle, or an
entire flock of angels on the head of a pin, I expect that Jim could
provide us with an entire load of bull. :-)
Searles
As I think of it... By all means. You could have saved everybody 16
completely useless Kilobytes of discussion so far about what bulls really
are and what bulls might mean according to some Irish and Indian-Indian
records which usually do nothing but give an insight into the blink of a
celtic eye to the modern person - metaphorically speaking.
Why don't you just say what you mean next time and call it Bullshit?
Aren't them four-letter-words just another of those christian taboos
that do nothing but spread confusion, disagreement and strife?
Say what you think, for Dagda's sake!  Open your mind!
- and besides... my Lady of our Lovely Garden tells me this perfectly
natural product is nowadays sold at a considerable monetary price under
the (politically correct?) name of "Steer Manure". Is there something to
be ashamed of? Why not call it what it is?
Terminology... Once more.
Dan
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That you can't tell the flowers from the bullshit is once again demonstrated.
Searles |
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DaRC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: summer solstice songs |
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David Dalton <dalton@nfld.com> wrote in message news:<bcvj70$b1e$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
| Quote: | So what songs are obviously related to or can be easily poetically
related to summer solstice/midsummer/Litha/Feast of St. John the
Baptist/St. John's Day (St. John's, Newfoundland)/Discovery Day
(the rest of Newfoundland)/St. Jean Baptiste Day (Quebec)/
bonfire night (Newfoundland)?
I should have posted this a few days ago, but anyway will
scan my CD collection for a solstice potluck tomorrow and
will post a followup with any good picks on Sunday, too
late for June 21 but a bit before June 24.
Any concerts happening in St. John's for St. John's Day,
which I guess is being celebrated one day early on Monday
the 23rd?
David
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton
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I would have thought "John Barleycorn"
(versions by Traffic, Fairport Convention and Jethro Tull)
Lyrics
There were three men came out of the West
Their fortunes for to try
And these three men made a solemn vow
John Barleycorn must die.
They ploughed, they sowed, they harrowed him in
Threw clods all upon his head
And these three men made a solemn vow
John barleycorn was Dead.
They let him stand for a very long time
Till the rains from heaven did fall
Then little Sir John's sprung up his head
And so amazed them all
They let him stand till the Midsummer Day
Till he grew both pale and wan
Then little Sir John's grew a great, long beard
And so become a man.
They hire'd men with scythes so sharp
To cut him off at the knee.
They bound him and tied him around the waist
Serving him most barb'rously.
They hire'd men with their sharp pitch-forks
To prick him to the heart
But the drover served him worse than that
For he's bound him to a cart.
They rolled him around and around the field
Till they came unto a barn
And these three men made a solemn mow
Of poor John Barleycorn
They hire'd men with crab-tree sticks
To strip him skin from bone
But the miller, served him worse than that,
For he's ground him between two stones.
Here's Little sir John in the nut-brown bowl
And brandy in the glass
But Little Sir John in the nut-brown bowl's
Proved the stronger man at last
For the hunts man he can't hunt the fox
Nor cheerily blow his horn
And the tinker, can't mend Kettle or pot
Without a little Barleycorn.
Cheers, Dave. |
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bogus address
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: summer solstice songs |
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| Quote: | Can anyone tell me the meaning of "Ross?" It appears in one of
the songs cited and also, memorably, in Yeats's "The Stolen Child."
"...Where the wave of moonlight glosses
The dim grey sands with light,
Far off by furthest Rosses
We foot it all the night..."
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Every "Ross" I can find in Scotland, and the one in the far north of
Ireland, is a peninsula or headland. I can't find a corresponding
Gaelic word.
[Quote of ENTIRE, LONG article deleted - get a grip.]
========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro". |
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Searles O'Dubhain
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: A Druidic Standpoint |
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"Kevin Jones" <100621.17@nospam.compuserve.com> wrote in message news:<bd5gb4$gdl$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
<snip>
| Quote: | Actually on a personal note, having visited the Other once, some years back,
here is far more an illusion than There - you might say that here is a
passing dream from which you awaken. As of consequence I understand Odhran's
comment - which Searles misquoted, that Heaven is not as we are told it is,
and neither is Hell as we thought it to be. Though perhaps you could extend
the thought that *even* the Other is illusion, although less of an illusion
than here.
|
I'd be interested in seeing an original source for this different
understanding regarding Odhran's story, sacrifice and remarks. A very
good essay on the topic by Frank MacEowan is to be found at:
http://www.angelfire.com/mac/celticprayers/odhran.html
It was also in DALRIADA: The Journal of Celtic Culture, Heritage &
Traditions, Volume 12, Issue Number 2, 1997 (an organization that is
well worth any support we can give to it).
Searles |
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bogus address
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: summer solstice songs |
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| Quote: | So what songs are obviously related to or can be easily poetically
related to summer solstice
I would have thought "John Barleycorn"
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Where do they harvest corn at midsummer?
The point about this pagan/seasonal-ritual thing is getting the season
*right*.
========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro". |
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Abby Sale
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: summer solstice songs |
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On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 08:59:39 GMT, "Pauline Lerner"
<paulinefiddle@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Can anyone tell me the meaning of "Ross?" It appears in one of the songs
cited and also, memorably, in Yeats's "The Stolen Child."
But the gold sun of freedom grew darkened at Ross
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Ross (or New Ross) is near Wexford in County Wexford, in the extreme
SouthEast of Ireland. All the place names in the song are right there in
that county. Even Forth, which is not the Scottish one but a "barony" in
Wexford Co.
John Moulden, the savant of Irish geography-in-folksong helped me out on
this one but most of the place names appear in a MapQuest of the region.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
Boycott South Carolina!
http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml |
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Primitive Jim
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: The Dagda, Irish God of Druids |
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Searles O'Dubhain wrote:
| Quote: | "1X2 Willows" <willows@@euro-celts.com [fight Sp@m]> wrote in message news:<f4wJa.61097$Io.5708342@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
"Searles O'Dubhain" <odubhain@comcast.net> wrote
"David Monks" <dmon1@tiscali.fr> wrote
Hi Jim,
Don't you mean: "how many druids can you needle?" :-)
David
If Christians can get a camel through the eye of a needle, or an
entire flock of angels on the head of a pin, I expect that Jim could
provide us with an entire load of bull. :-)
Searles
As I think of it... By all means. You could have saved everybody 16
completely useless Kilobytes of discussion so far about what bulls really
are and what bulls might mean according to some Irish and Indian-Indian
records which usually do nothing but give an insight into the blink of a
celtic eye to the modern person - metaphorically speaking.
Why don't you just say what you mean next time and call it Bullshit?
Aren't them four-letter-words just another of those christian taboos
that do nothing but spread confusion, disagreement and strife?
Say what you think, for Dagda's sake! Open your mind!
- and besides... my Lady of our Lovely Garden tells me this perfectly
natural product is nowadays sold at a considerable monetary price under
the (politically correct?) name of "Steer Manure". Is there something to
be ashamed of? Why not call it what it is?
Terminology... Once more.
Dan
That you can't tell the flowers from the bullshit is once again demonstrated.
Searles
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Searles have you ever wondered why in all these years ARD has not grown by leaps and bounds???
Could it be the BS propagated here by you and your "few" cohorts?
Your entire focus is on conjectural/suppositional subjects which require "faith" and should be no
more than 5% of any modern druid curriculum.
You spoke highly of the Dal Riada Celtic Heritage Trust. I have been a fan of theirs for years myself. Why? Because they discuss "useful"
information.
As educated a man as you are, you ain't got a practical bone in your body. Most likely that is because your not interested in the
propagation of druidry per se, but in heading up a religion where folks have to come and sit at your feet.
How very many good folks have come to ARD over the years, only to shrug their shoulders at your wordy nonsense and walk away! |
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Spydr84
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: We Welcome everyone - from every faith |
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I cannot say how it is for you, but for me the trap of nonconformity is the
temptation of creating a new orthodoxy.
Just a wannabe mystic here, walking on the path before me. |
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1X2 Willows
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:17 am Post subject: Re: George Armstrong Custer |
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"Primitive Jim" <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote in message
news:3EF45D94.4BBD58D0@softcom.net...
| Quote: |
1X2 Willows wrote:
"Primitive Jim" <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote
1X2 Willows wrote:
"Primitive Jim" <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote
Every year about this time I get to thinking about Custer the
great
merkan army hero who "served his country so well"!
He come down hard on the Indians during their summer solstice
ritual,
if you know what I'm sayin.
They say he was searchin for weapons of mass destruction.
Guess he found em!
They say it was an arrowing experience.
Why do I always get this nasty taste of artificial chemical vanilla
in my mouth whenever that name comes up...
Dan
He was following a presidential directive in a land where a previous
president said "all men are created equal".
Makes me proud to be an Amerikan. Just kiddin!!!!!!
Who's this creator dude and who the hell created him??????? For that
matter, who the hell created the one who created the creator????
Religion, always good for a chuckle or two.
There will aways be some humans who have the impertinent arrogance
to claim they're able to explain it all away, no?
Dan
Sorta like some druids that I am aware of who have a pat answer for any
question.
:-)
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As my doctor said when I approached him because of severe back pains once
upon a time in my past...
"I suppose you're gonna' have to learn to live with it."
Some doctor that was...
Dan |
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1X2 Willows
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:31 am Post subject: Re: The Dagda, Irish God of Druids |
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"Primitive Jim" <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote
| Quote: |
[....]
But then look at Ireland!!!! All but to the man they buy into the bible. !
Enough said?
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Well well wellll... There's at least one Monk that I know of, who's still a
member of the Résistance and once you step outside Ireland herself, it's
pretty tough to keep up with the Joneses, sometimes.
- lest not forget other Human Beirnings that come here once in a while...
;-)
Dan |
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Searles O'Dubhain
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:13 am Post subject: Re: The Dagda, Irish God of Druids |
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Primitive Jim <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote in message news:<3EF70C13.A45B0F9C@softcom.net>...
<snip>
| Quote: |
My point exactly. ARD is words and words and even more words with just about
zero substance when it comes to real druidry. The druids of the long past
dealt with the issues of the day while these wanaby druids live vicariously
through Irish funny books.
But then look at Ireland!!!! All but to the man they buy into the bible. !
Enough said?
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If you haven't noticed yet, Usenet is mainly about words, postings,
messages and discussions. That just might be why there are mainly
words here. :-)
The Druids of any time have used words with a power that creates. That
you don't benefit from the words that you hear or read may not be a
true message of their worth. Of course, a lot of ideas depend on
attention span, understanding and a well established repertoire of
concepts and memories.
While we're on the topic, how about some substance about what you are
calling "real druidry?" I'd like to see what you know.
Searles |
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Searles O'Dubhain
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:24 am Post subject: Re: The Dagda, Irish God of Druids |
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Primitive Jim <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote in message news:<3EF707BA.A5D708FC@softcom.net>...
| Quote: | Searles O'Dubhain wrote:
Primitive Jim <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote in message news:<3EF630D1.B2F36B47@softcom.net>...
snip
If I read you correctly, druidry is a "faith".
You haven't read me correctly at all. Druidry is a study, an
experience and a search. It is more about discovery and understanding
than it is about anything else. Druidic beliefs are verified in
practice. I hope that these remarks provide you with some clarity.
Searles
Your adamant belief and total acceptance of fairy tales written down in books is what I would
clearly define as a faith.
The modern Xtians, Hebrews and Muslims have their books of fairy tales and the Neo Druids have
theirs.
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You live in a world of illusion and misunderstanding of your own
making. That you attempt to color everyone else with your hangups
about Druids and Druidry in no way validates what you are saying. What
it does do is show you for the narrow minded pedant that you are.
Modern Druids are like the ancient Druids, especially when they learn
the lessons that are preserved in tradition and place that knowledge
into present day practice. It's plain for all to see that you
represent the limited in a very unlimited universe.
Searles |
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Primitive Jim
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 2:55 am Post subject: Re: The Dagda, Irish God of Druids |
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Seamless O'Dubhain wrote:
| Quote: | Primitive Jim <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote in message news:<3EF707BA.A5D708FC@softcom.net>...
Searles O'Dubhain wrote:
Primitive Jim <cloghan@softcom.net> wrote in message news:<3EF630D1.B2F36B47@softcom.net>...
snip
If I read you correctly, druidry is a "faith".
You haven't read me correctly at all. Druidry is a study, an
experience and a search. It is more about discovery and understanding
than it is about anything else. Druidic beliefs are verified in
practice. I hope that these remarks provide you with some clarity.
Searles
Your adamant belief and total acceptance of fairy tales written down in books is what I would
clearly define as a faith.
The modern Xtians, Hebrews and Muslims have their books of fairy tales and the Neo Druids have
theirs.
You live in a world of illusion
|
Would you be so kind as to define my illusion!!!
| Quote: | and misunderstanding of your own
making. That you attempt to color everyone else with your hangups
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Hang-ups!!!!
| Quote: |
about Druids and Druidry in no way validates what you are saying. What
it does do is show you for the narrow minded
|
Narrow minded. Is that what you call one who dares to think outside your little box?
| Quote: | pedant that you are.
Modern Druids are like the ancient Druids, especially when they learn
the lessons that are preserved in tradition and place that knowledge
into present day practice. It's plain for all to see that you
represent the limited in a very unlimited universe.
|
That is because unlike what you accuse me of I do not present my universe here on ARD or anywhere
else on the web. My universe is most primal i.e. before religion and corruption.
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Kevin Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2003 3:03 am Post subject: Re: A Druidic Standpoint |
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"Searles O'Dubhain" <odubhain@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dcf478af.0306230248.88279a2@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | "Kevin Jones" <100621.17@nospam.compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:<bd5gb4$gdl$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
snip
Actually on a personal note, having visited the Other once, some years
back,
here is far more an illusion than There - you might say that here is a
passing dream from which you awaken. As of consequence I understand
Odhran's
comment - which Searles misquoted, that Heaven is not as we are told it
is,
and neither is Hell as we thought it to be. Though perhaps you could
extend
the thought that *even* the Other is illusion, although less of an
illusion
than here.
I'd be interested in seeing an original source for this different
understanding regarding Odhran's story, sacrifice and remarks. A very
good essay on the topic by Frank MacEowan is to be found at:
http://www.angelfire.com/mac/celticprayers/odhran.html
It was also in DALRIADA: The Journal of Celtic Culture, Heritage &
Traditions, Volume 12, Issue Number 2, 1997 (an organization that is
well worth any support we can give to it).
|
I found it some years ago while doing studying the old texts in the British
Library, and it stuck with me. When I've reduced the avalanche of stuff I've
got to do, I'll see if I can find it again.
Kevin |
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