| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Richard H. Gravelly
Guest
|
 Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: The Soul |
 |
|
I see no argument against that view Kent. I do wonder sometimes about the
Western view of "usefulness". I get the impression that "usefulness" is
being measured only in terms of Material profit. That view, as I see it,
can make for a life of agonizing frustration.
Richard.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Johnson" <kent@compx2.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
To: <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:00 AM
Subject: Re: The Soul
| Quote: | Hi Richard,
Isn't knowldge of "use" a learned construct and
non-essential?
Keeps me out of the hospital for the most part, and I find that useful.
...continued existence is fundamental or essential?
I would say existence is fundamental, yes. And hopefully useful. But
essential to what? To me? Is continued existence essential to me? Well,
for the time being I find it useful.
--Kent |
|
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
Kent Johnson
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
Hi Richard,
The only *usefulness* is to better the human world. Our efforts toward
bettering our surroundings must encompass the well-being and progress of our
neighbor as well as ourselves. Such has been proven beyond reasonable doubt
by countless souls who have found that very truth in Revelation from God.
It is in our best interests to better the interests of others.
As I keep saying, there is no mystery, no complication, no nonsense. It is
simple and straight-forward. Work toward bettering the human situation is
work toward an immortal spirit and completing God's Will for humanity. That
is the only point, the only usefulness, and one need not be a Bahá'i in
order to believe it. One might even dispute several common definitions of
God and do more to fulfill His Will than the majority of academics, clergy
and teachers.
My view is consistent with Bahá'i teachings in every way, and therefore I
must be allowed to be a Bahá'i even though I don't follow a lot of the
mumbo-jumbo many Bahá'ís believe. I believe it is important that I teach
Bahá'ís my views in the interest of the unity of the Bahá'i community and
the world of humanity.
Thanks for reading. --Kent
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard H. Gravelly [mailto:rgravelly@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:48 AM
To: bahai-faith@bcca.org
Subject: Re: The Soul
I see no argument against that view Kent. I do wonder sometimes about the
Western view of "usefulness". I get the impression that "usefulness" is
being measured only in terms of Material profit. That view, as I see it, can
make for a life of agonizing frustration.
Richard.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Johnson" <kent@compx2.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
To: <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 4:00 AM
Subject: Re: The Soul
| Quote: | Hi Richard,
Isn't knowldge of "use" a learned construct and non-essential?
Keeps me out of the hospital for the most part, and I find that useful.
...continued existence is fundamental or essential?
I would say existence is fundamental, yes. And hopefully useful. But
essential to what? To me? Is continued existence essential to me?
Well, for the time being I find it useful.
--Kent |
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Suzanne
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
Richard wrote:
| Quote: | "Useful" Kent? Isn't knowldge of "use" a learned construct and
non-essential?
|
Dear Richard,
Baha'u'llah did actually say that knowledge should be of use:
"The Great Being saith: The learned of the day must direct the people
to acquire those branches of knowledge which are of use, that both the
learned themselves and the generality of mankind may derive benefits
therefrom. Such academic pursuits as begin and end in words alone
have never been and will never be of any worth."
(Baha'u'llah: Tablets of Baha'u'llah, Page: 169)
I think that a lot of times people spend a great deal of time
discussing questions which begin and end in words; things which won't
move themselves or anyone else forward in in any way whatsover,
whether it be spiritually, materially, or in terms of gathering
knowledge about the world and universe.
Best wishes,
Suzanne |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Paul Bartlett
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
On Wed, 7 May 2008, Suzanne wrote:
| Quote: | On May 7, 8:32 pm, Paul Bartlett <bartl...@panix.com> wrote:
[trim for brevity]
If `Abdu'l-Baha is an authoritative expositor of the teachings of
Baha'u'llah, what else is there?
Dear Paul,
A common error in religion has always been taking one passage from
Scriptures and ignoring other passages which may modify or shed
entirely new light on it.
While I agree that the passage you cite looks pretty final, I have
been citing another passage by 'Abdu'l-Baha which says that a person
in the next world can also initiate his progress through his own
prayers and supplications as well as the things mentioned above here.
I will share it again if you like.
|
Please do so. Thank you.
--
Paul Bartlett |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Paul Bartlett
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
On Wed, 7 May 2008, Susan Maneck wrote:
| Quote: | I see it not so much a matter of what people believe God can do as what
they believe he has said. [trim]
Dear Paul,
The point I think you are missing is that according to Abdu'l-Baha
God's grace (not simply His will) has the last word.
warmest, Susan
|
Again, it is not so much a matter of what God ultimately can do by his
grace as what he has said that he will do. If `Abdu'l-Baha has said
more on the matter, do you have references? (I do not currently have
Ocean installed, but I do have some of `Abdu'l-Baha's writings on my
bookshelf, if not all of them.)
--
Paul Bartlett |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Susan Maneck
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
| Quote: |
Again, it is not so much a matter of what God ultimately can do by his
grace as what he has said that he will do.
|
Dear Paul,
Abdu'l-Baha would not have brought up God's grace were it not for the
fact that He *does* use it.
warmest, Susan |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Suzanne
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
Paul wrote:
| Quote: |
Again, it is not so much a matter of what God ultimately can do by his
grace as what he has said that he will do. If `Abdu'l-Baha has said
more on the matter, do you have references? (I do not currently have
Ocean installed, but I do have some of `Abdu'l-Baha's writings on my
bookshelf, if not all of them.)
|
Dear Paul,
I have a Baha'i book of quotes on the soul and the afterlife, but I
can't seem to put my hands on it at the moment. If you have
Baha'u'llah and the New Era, you can read the section on Life After
Death and between p. 188 and 196.
I would defnitely say it's important for the people in this world to
pray for the people in the next world, and I do think that 'Abdu'l-
Baha was stressing this point. Yes, the grace of God will probably
help most people, but it shows love and caring to pray for others.
There was a man in my previous Baha'i community who was, perhaps, the
most humble, radiant, spiritual person I've ever met. Before he died
he asked me to keep him in my prayers when he was in the next world.
I said that I didn't think that he needed my prayers, but he was
insistent. After he died I asked his brother about this. He asked me
if he had ever asked anything from me before? I told him that he
didn't. He said that he was very serious. I should pray for him
always. And I have done this, even though I was certain that he had
the highest possible station and didn't need my prayers. What I have
noticed is that this has increased our heart connection. I never
forget him. He comes to mind often. It's lovely to have him with
me. I'm sure that my prayers are helping me more than him, but it's
nice for both of us to have those bonds. There is a Baha'i teaching
that we can have eternal bonds with many people. I
"Outside of their normal, legitimate married life they should seek to
establish bonds of comradeship and love which are eternal and founded
on the spiritual life of man, not on his physical life."
(Shoghi Effendi: A Chaste and Holy Life, Page: 57)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I do think your mother needs
and would benefit from your prayers, and this connection would help
both of you.
Best wishes,
Suzanne |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Kent Johnson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
Hi Suzanne.
You: " What I have noticed is that this has increased our heart connection.
I never forget him. He comes to mind often. It's lovely to have him with
me. I'm sure that my prayers are helping me more than him..."
Well said, and that is the important point to this whole discussion. The
mystery of sacrifice for God and for others is that it is no sacrifice.
--Kent
"Suzanne" <sb.gerstner@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:uJSdnTqM69D7qbnVnZ2dnUVZ_qbinZ2d@giganews.com...
| Quote: | Paul wrote:
Again, it is not so much a matter of what God ultimately can do by his
grace as what he has said that he will do. If `Abdu'l-Baha has said
more on the matter, do you have references? (I do not currently have
Ocean installed, but I do have some of `Abdu'l-Baha's writings on my
bookshelf, if not all of them.)
Dear Paul,
I have a Baha'i book of quotes on the soul and the afterlife, but I
can't seem to put my hands on it at the moment. If you have
Baha'u'llah and the New Era, you can read the section on Life After
Death and between p. 188 and 196.
I would defnitely say it's important for the people in this world to
pray for the people in the next world, and I do think that 'Abdu'l-
Baha was stressing this point. Yes, the grace of God will probably
help most people, but it shows love and caring to pray for others.
There was a man in my previous Baha'i community who was, perhaps, the
most humble, radiant, spiritual person I've ever met. Before he died
he asked me to keep him in my prayers when he was in the next world.
I said that I didn't think that he needed my prayers, but he was
insistent. After he died I asked his brother about this. He asked me
if he had ever asked anything from me before? I told him that he
didn't. He said that he was very serious. I should pray for him
always. And I have done this, even though I was certain that he had
the highest possible station and didn't need my prayers. What I have
noticed is that this has increased our heart connection. I never
forget him. He comes to mind often. It's lovely to have him with
me. I'm sure that my prayers are helping me more than him, but it's
nice for both of us to have those bonds. There is a Baha'i teaching
that we can have eternal bonds with many people. I
"Outside of their normal, legitimate married life they should seek to
establish bonds of comradeship and love which are eternal and founded
on the spiritual life of man, not on his physical life."
(Shoghi Effendi: A Chaste and Holy Life, Page: 57)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I do think your mother needs
and would benefit from your prayers, and this connection would help
both of you.
Best wishes,
Suzanne
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
mike3
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
On May 5, 3:41 am, Suzanne <sb.gerst...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
<snip> But I honestly don't think we have
| Quote: | access to the other worlds of God. Not yet. I'm not even sure what
those other worlds of God are.
|
And we probably won't be until we get to them, of course. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Richard H. Gravelly
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: Re: The Soul |
|
|
Perhaps you have already experienced some of the other worlds of God. Here
is an excerpt from Baha'u'llah.
"...it must necessarily follow that the world in which thou livest is
different and apart from that which thou hast experienced in thy dream. This
latter world hath neither beginning nor end. It would be true if thou wert
to contend that this same world is, as decreed by the All-Glorious and
Almighty God, within thy proper self and is wrapped up within thee. It would
equally be true to maintain that thy spirit, having transcended the
limitations of sleep and having stripped itself of all earthly attachment,
hath, by the act of God, been made to traverse a realm which lieth hidden in
the innermost reality of this world." (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the
Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 152)
The ways in which some astrophysicists describe the dimensions beyond the
three or four of which we usually speak, bring to my mind thoughts of the
worlds beyond this world.
Richard.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike3" <mike4ty4@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
To: <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: The Soul
On May 5, 3:41 am, Suzanne <sb.gerst...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
<snip> But I honestly don't think we have
| Quote: | access to the other worlds of God. Not yet. I'm not even sure what
those other worlds of God are.
|
And we probably won't be until we get to them, of course. |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
