| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
athair ambrois
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced |
 |
|
Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced
Calls on Practice Used by 1st Christians
WASHINGTON, D.C., AUG. 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- A note from the Vatican
has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the
tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on
Divine Worship, in a note informing prelates of the Vatican directive,
said the indications "do not force any changes to official liturgical
texts," but might cause "some impact on the use of particular pieces
of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of
variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration
of the Mass and the other sacraments."
Commonly used songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are
near," will need to be modified.
The June 29 Vatican message, from the Congregation for Divine Worship
and the Sacraments, clarified that the name of God revealed in YHWH
was not pronounced by the first Christians, following the tradition
already in use.
It explained: "The venerable biblical tradition of sacred Scripture,
known as the Old Testament, displays a series of divine appellations,
among which is the sacred name of God revealed in a tetragrammaton
YHWH -- hwhw. As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty
of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced
during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an
alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord.'
"The Greek translation of the Old Testament, the so called Septuagint,
dating back to the last centuries prior to the Christian era, had
regularly rendered the Hebrew tetragrammaton with the Greek word
Kyrios, which means 'Lord.' Since the text of the Septuagint
constituted the Bible of the first generation of Greek speaking
Christians, in which language all the books of the New Testament were
also written, these Christians, too, from the beginning never
pronounced the divine tetragrammaton."
Theology
The Vatican goes on to note that this practice had "important
implications" for New Testament Christology.
"When in fact, St. Paul, with regard to the crucifixion, writes that
'God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is
above every name" (Phil 2:9), he does not mean any other name than
'Lord,' for he continues by saying, 'and every tongue confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord' (Phil 2:11; cf. Isaiah 42:8: 'I am the Lord;
that is my name')," the Vatican note explained.
"The attribution of this title to the risen Christ corresponds exactly
to the proclamation of his divinity," it continued. "The title in fact
becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of
the Christian faith, even though it is not in fact one of the titles
used for the Messiah of Israel."
"Avoiding pronouncing the tetragrammaton of the name of God on the
part of the Church has therefore its own grounds," the Vatican
concluded. "Apart from a motive of a purely philogical order, there is
also that of remaining faithful to the Church's tradition, from the
beginning, that the sacred tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the
Christian context, nor translated into any of the languages into which
the Bible was translated." |
|
| |
|
 Back to top |
JohnN
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: Re: Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced |
|
|
On Aug 19, 8:06 pm, athair ambrois <em...@globe.net.nz> wrote:
| Quote: | Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced
Calls on Practice Used by 1st Christians
WASHINGTON, D.C., AUG. 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- A note from the Vatican
has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the
tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on
Divine Worship, in a note informing prelates of the Vatican directive,
said the indications "do not force any changes to official liturgical
texts," but might cause "some impact on the use of particular pieces
of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of
variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration
of the Mass and the other sacraments."
Commonly used songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are
near," will need to be modified.
The June 29 Vatican message, from the Congregation for Divine Worship
and the Sacraments, clarified that the name of God revealed in YHWH
was not pronounced by the first Christians, following the tradition
already in use.
It explained: "The venerable biblical tradition of sacred Scripture,
known as the Old Testament, displays a series of divine appellations,
among which is the sacred name of God revealed in a tetragrammaton
YHWH -- hwhw. As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty
of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced
during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an
alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord.'
"The Greek translation of the Old Testament, the so called Septuagint,
dating back to the last centuries prior to the Christian era, had
regularly rendered the Hebrew tetragrammaton with the Greek word
Kyrios, which means 'Lord.' Since the text of the Septuagint
constituted the Bible of the first generation of Greek speaking
Christians, in which language all the books of the New Testament were
also written, these Christians, too, from the beginning never
pronounced the divine tetragrammaton."
Theology
The Vatican goes on to note that this practice had "important
implications" for New Testament Christology.
"When in fact, St. Paul, with regard to the crucifixion, writes that
'God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is
above every name" (Phil 2:9), he does not mean any other name than
'Lord,' for he continues by saying, 'and every tongue confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord' (Phil 2:11; cf. Isaiah 42:8: 'I am the Lord;
that is my name')," the Vatican note explained.
"The attribution of this title to the risen Christ corresponds exactly
to the proclamation of his divinity," it continued. "The title in fact
becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of
the Christian faith, even though it is not in fact one of the titles
used for the Messiah of Israel."
"Avoiding pronouncing the tetragrammaton of the name of God on the
part of the Church has therefore its own grounds," the Vatican
concluded. "Apart from a motive of a purely philogical order, there is
also that of remaining faithful to the Church's tradition, from the
beginning, that the sacred tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the
Christian context, nor translated into any of the languages into which
the Bible was translated."
|
This begs the question, so what? What happens if a priest says the
magic name during mass? What is the history of saying the name of He
Must Not Be Named?
OK, OK, I took the bait. This is just a Voldemort as God story.
JohnN
JohnN |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
AGGreen
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced |
|
|
"JohnN" <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3ccac9b-1486-444a-8438-9c17668ea65e@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 19, 8:06 pm, athair ambrois <em...@globe.net.nz> wrote:
| Quote: | Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced
Calls on Practice Used by 1st Christians
WASHINGTON, D.C., AUG. 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- A note from the Vatican
has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the
tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops' Committee on
Divine Worship, in a note informing prelates of the Vatican directive,
said the indications "do not force any changes to official liturgical
texts," but might cause "some impact on the use of particular pieces
of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of
variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration
of the Mass and the other sacraments."
Commonly used songs with phrases such as "Yahweh, I know you are
near," will need to be modified.
The June 29 Vatican message, from the Congregation for Divine Worship
and the Sacraments, clarified that the name of God revealed in YHWH
was not pronounced by the first Christians, following the tradition
already in use.
It explained: "The venerable biblical tradition of sacred Scripture,
known as the Old Testament, displays a series of divine appellations,
among which is the sacred name of God revealed in a tetragrammaton
YHWH -- hwhw. As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty
of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced
during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an
alternate name: 'Adonai,' which means 'Lord.'
"The Greek translation of the Old Testament, the so called Septuagint,
dating back to the last centuries prior to the Christian era, had
regularly rendered the Hebrew tetragrammaton with the Greek word
Kyrios, which means 'Lord.' Since the text of the Septuagint
constituted the Bible of the first generation of Greek speaking
Christians, in which language all the books of the New Testament were
also written, these Christians, too, from the beginning never
pronounced the divine tetragrammaton."
Theology
The Vatican goes on to note that this practice had "important
implications" for New Testament Christology.
"When in fact, St. Paul, with regard to the crucifixion, writes that
'God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is
above every name" (Phil 2:9), he does not mean any other name than
'Lord,' for he continues by saying, 'and every tongue confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord' (Phil 2:11; cf. Isaiah 42:8: 'I am the Lord;
that is my name')," the Vatican note explained.
"The attribution of this title to the risen Christ corresponds exactly
to the proclamation of his divinity," it continued. "The title in fact
becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of
the Christian faith, even though it is not in fact one of the titles
used for the Messiah of Israel."
"Avoiding pronouncing the tetragrammaton of the name of God on the
part of the Church has therefore its own grounds," the Vatican
concluded. "Apart from a motive of a purely philogical order, there is
also that of remaining faithful to the Church's tradition, from the
beginning, that the sacred tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the
Christian context, nor translated into any of the languages into which
the Bible was translated."
|
This begs the question, so what? What happens if a priest says the
magic name during mass? What is the history of saying the name of He
Must Not Be Named?
OK, OK, I took the bait. This is just a Voldemort as God story.
JohnN
***I agree with you. What's the big deal? Will the pope send people who say
Yahweh to the purgatory re-education internment camp? LOL!
Al |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
duke
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced |
|
|
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT), JohnN <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | This begs the question, so what?
|
Yahweh is not his Christian Name.
| Quote: | What happens if a priest says the
magic name during mass?
|
It's not used in the official parts.
| Quote: | What is the history of saying the name of He
Must Not Be Named?
|
Only Jews were at one time scared to write his name.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
JohnN
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced |
|
|
On Aug 20, 11:34 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT), JohnN <jnorri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This begs the question, so what?
Yahweh is not his Christian Name.
|
He/she/it is not a chritian anyway.
| Quote: | What happens if a priest says the
magic name during mass?
It's not used in the official parts.
What is the history of saying the name of He
Must Not Be Named?
Only Jews were at one time scared to write his name.
|
Who's name?
JohnN |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
duke
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced |
|
|
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:51:13 -0700 (PDT), JohnN <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 11:34 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT), JohnN <jnorri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This begs the question, so what?
Yahweh is not his Christian Name.
He/she/it is not a chritian anyway.
What happens if a priest says the
magic name during mass?
It's not used in the official parts.
What is the history of saying the name of He
Must Not Be Named?
Only Jews were at one time scared to write his name.
Who's name?
|
G-d's Jewish name.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
Digimortal@starpower.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Vatican Says "Yahweh" Not to Be Pronounced |
|
|
LOL! What is God's (The Father) "Christian" name Duke? "Yahweh" is
really not a name but more a symbol, so it really can not be and
should not be pronounced. Only the Temple High priest knew it. It
would be the same as calling Jesus "INRI". I agree with the Pope on
this. Jews are know to use the term "HaShem" (THE Name) instead.
duke wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:51:13 -0700 (PDT), JohnN <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 20, 11:34�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT), JohnN <jnorri...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This begs the question, so what?
Yahweh is not his Christian Name.
He/she/it is not a chritian anyway.
�What happens if a priest says the
magic name during mass?
It's not used in the official parts.
�What is the history of saying the name of He
Must Not Be Named?
Only Jews were at one time scared to write his name.
Who's name?
G-d's Jewish name.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
|
