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Doug Freyburger
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 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
| Quote: | quiquiribu_mandinga@yahoo.com wrote:
Can't imagine anyone here throwing out all the wisdom of the Eddas, but
there's certainly much room for skepticism.
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Or the perspective that we aren't in the tenth century and
some of the more specific stuff needs to be viewed through
a modern point of view. It becomes very hard to tell what's
out of date and what's my personal agenda, though.
| Quote: | The Havamal, for instance,
contains much which I haven't found to be particularly good advice,
particularly as regards relationships with women.
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Some of it is about girls rather than women without getting
into how to tell the difference. Some of it reflects a
woman's loyalty to her children and parents over her husband
and that might not map to this century. Consider that a
husband might be off on a trading/raiding expedition all
year but there are still men around on the farm, and I
suspect the rate of who actually fathered children other
than the legal husband was higher than it is now when most
husbands come home every day. And much of it is sour grapes.
| Quote: | Or all the magic nonsense. Sorry, carving runes ain't gonna help.
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Depends on what you view to be magic and what you view to be
runes.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is magic. Any
sufficiently advanced science is magic. Imagine an ancient
seeing a jet aircraft compared to a modern aeronautical
engineer grumbling about Reynolds numbers and over engineering
costing extra fuel.
Runes can be viewed as literacy without regard to magic. Odin
may have known runic spells to win a woman's heart, but so do
I. In early meetings the spells include readings from a book
with a title something like "The 100 Most Romantic Poems as
Chosen by a Committee of Engaged Women". Later the spells
include readings from a book with a title something like
"Easy Gourmet Meals to Cook for your Wife". Odin may have
known runic spells to do healing, but so do I. One of the
spells includes readings from a book with a title something
like "Household Cures Your Doctor Doesn't Want You to Know
About". Another of the spells includes readings from a book
with a title something like "Catalog of Local Providers
Available Through the Company's Health Insurance Plan".
| Quote: | However, the practical parts of the Havamal fit perfectly with my
worldview. Oppose evil. Welcome friends. Beware uncertain circumstances.
Lie to your enemies. Pack heat. Don't get wasted. Laugh. |
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Doug Freyburger
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Ed Clowes wrote:
| Quote: | bowman@montana.com says...
Scott Lowther wrote:
I'm not sure a
modern knuckledragger armed with a Raven .25 has much in the way of
spiritual heritage, either.
Probably not, but a sincere follower of the Gods?
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Sincerity doesn't imply cluefullness. There are people who
sincerely get it wrong. Knuckledragger might or might not
be a good description for one such.
| Quote: | As some have pointed out in other posts, the answer vis a vis the Eddas
seems pretty clear, but how would that hold up against a situation where
all guns were banned?
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Just how current are the stanzas of the Havamal? How much
is the difference between centuries and how much is my own
personal agenda?
| Quote: | If Odin would be against gun control, where does
that leave the more liberal Asatruar? Can you support a thing you
*believe* to be right (banning weapons) when it is seemingly against
your religious convictions? Or are we free to pick and choose, "think
for ourselves" on the matter, as has been said?
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Not only think for ourselves, but The Wanderer is one among
a bunch of dieties. Should Gna become interested in
disarmament, how would a Gna specialist react to that stanza?
Then again finding some hint of any diety opposing going
armed would be nice to consider such a UPG to be usefull. |
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Post Colonial Boy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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On 8 Jun 2005 12:22:47 -0700, lexcorp@ix.netcom.com wrote:
| Quote: | Taking her name in vain again...
Nope. Grow up, son. You ain't the friggen' Asa-Pope, no matter how much
you might think you are. Time for you to realize the world is more
diverse than your little circle. "Friggen" is a perfectly common word
hereabouts, and has precisely as much religious meaning as "Saturday"
does.
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Where does it come from? What is its etymology?
When you understand that, then you may understand why I, quite
reasonably, regard usage of that term as innappropriate behaviour for
a Heathen...it dishonours our heritage...but...you don't care about
that and would rather issue ad hominem insults and non sequitur...it
shows the impoverishment of your viewpoint.
| Quote: | Now... move along. The adults are trying to have a conversation.
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Non sequitur...I'm not stopping anyone...and I'm 37...
Adding illogic to your arsenal eh? And to think that I was under the
distinct impression that Engineers are logical people.
Nik |
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Post Colonial Boy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:14 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 05:22:57 -0400, "PSn"
<benalishsiward@bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I would note that the term to use the name of a deity "in vain" does not
necessarily refer to saying that name or a variation thereof for secular
purposes, but more often had to do with performing an action not sanctioned
by said deity and then claiming that it was.
Like if someone went and killed a guy and said, "I did it in the name of
Odin!"
That would be using Odin's name in vain, for one's one vanity, to say they
are an instrument of holy powers when they clearly are not.
Also, Nik, it's useless to keep telling him to stop, he's just going to get
worse about it. 
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My point is that he's dishonouring our heritage by using the
term...and pointing this out to him. If his desire is to dishonour our
heritage then so be it...be it on his head.
Nik |
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Post Colonial Boy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:23:32 GMT, Scott Lowther
<scottlowther@ix.netcom.SPAMBLOK.com> wrote:
| Quote: | PSn wrote:
I would note that the term to use the name of a deity "in vain" does not
necessarily refer to saying that name or a variation thereof for secular
purposes,
And nor does it appear in the Eddas, let alone the Havamal. Sound like
*someone* has appropriated some *other* religions rules in order to set
himself up as Pope of all Asatruar.
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Indeed it is a Christian sanction to not insult their notion of God
but surely it is self-evident that it is not honouring the Aesir, to
which we are, after all, meant to be 'tru' to...to use a term which
has anti-Heathen abuse origins.
It seems clear to me...
Nik |
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robert bowman
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:36 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Doug Freyburger wrote:
| Quote: | Just how current are the stanzas of the Havamal? How much
is the difference between centuries and how much is my own
personal agenda?
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I'm fond of the Havamal for New Yawkas. I don't know if it was written
strictly in a humorous vein, but it does a damn good job of relating the
Havamal to current social realities.
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PSn
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:26 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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People will always make choices that are incongruent with each other.
Sometimes, it's best to extract oneself from an obvious contradiction,
rather than attempting to correct it.
The mind is a puzzling thing.
"Post Colonial Boy" <republican@email.com> wrote in message
news:7aqha1ho1q1eaoqplmtg3bt7oe2bfdop02@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 05:22:57 -0400, "PSn"
benalishsiward@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I would note that the term to use the name of a deity "in vain" does not
necessarily refer to saying that name or a variation thereof for secular
purposes, but more often had to do with performing an action not
sanctioned
by said deity and then claiming that it was.
Like if someone went and killed a guy and said, "I did it in the name of
Odin!"
That would be using Odin's name in vain, for one's one vanity, to say
they
are an instrument of holy powers when they clearly are not.
Also, Nik, it's useless to keep telling him to stop, he's just going to
get
worse about it. :P
My point is that he's dishonouring our heritage by using the
term...and pointing this out to him. If his desire is to dishonour our
heritage then so be it...be it on his head.
Nik |
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Scott Lowther
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:53 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Post Colonial Boy wrote:
| Quote: | On 8 Jun 2005 12:22:47 -0700, lexcorp@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Taking her name in vain again...
Nope. Grow up, son. You ain't the friggen' Asa-Pope, no matter how much
you might think you are. Time for you to realize the world is more
diverse than your little circle. "Friggen" is a perfectly common word
hereabouts, and has precisely as much religious meaning as "Saturday"
does.
Where does it come from? What is its etymology?
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A brief search:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A753527
"From the Middle English for 'wriggle' or the Old French for 'rub',
'frig' is sometimes used as a euphemism for 'F***', at other times used
to mean 'masturbate'; usually only seen as a gerundive (or verbal
adjective) 'frigging'. "
| Quote: | When you understand that, then you may understand why I, quite
reasonably, regard usage of that term as innappropriate behaviour for
a Heathen...it dishonours our heritage...
What, we aren't supposed to wriggle? |
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Scott Lowther
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:55 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Post Colonial Boy wrote:
| Quote: | My point is that he's dishonouring our heritage by using the
term...
"From the Middle English for 'wriggle' or the Old French for 'rub', |
'frig' is sometimes used as a euphemism for 'F***', at other times used
to mean 'masturbate'; usually only seen as a gerundive (or verbal
adjective) 'frigging'. "
OH NO! Rubbing is bad! |
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Scott Lowther
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:57 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Post Colonial Boy wrote:
| Quote: | It seems clear to me...
....that you think wriggling and/or rubbing are anti-heathen? |
"From the Middle English for 'wriggle' or the Old French for 'rub',
'frig' is sometimes used as a euphemism for 'F***', at other times used
to mean 'masturbate'; usually only seen as a gerundive (or verbal
adjective) 'frigging'. " |
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Scott Lowther
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Post Colonial Boy wrote:
| Quote: | My point is that he's dishonouring our heritage by using the
term...and pointing this out to him. If his desire is to dishonour our
heritage then so be it...be it on his head.
...... |
http://dooryard.ca/frigg.html
frigg \'frig\ v - Used in place of similar sounding expletives, usu. as
an exclamation of frustration; "Frigg! I lost my mittens." From the Old
English for "masturbate," frigg long ago lost this meaning in the
County, although its origins as a forbidden word may have encouraged its
use as a substitution for other, more colorful forms of cussing.
....
Collins English Dictionary (c) 2000 HarperCollins Publishers
frig [frg]
verb (frigs, frigging, frigged) (taboo slang)
1 to have sexual intercourse with
2 to masturbate
3 [intr; foll by around, about, etc] to behave foolishly or
aimlessly[ETYMOLOGY: C15 (in the sense: to wriggle): of uncertain origin;
perhaps related to obsolete frike strong, or to Old English frigan to love]
..........
http://www.panikon.com/phurba/alteng/f.html
Frig - "to Masturbate; Copulate." This word can denote either male or
female masturbation or copulation, under the idea of "rubbing." It is
cognate to "friction" and "fricatrix" and derives from the Latin
"fricare" = "to rub."
Frigging - "Masturbating; Having Coital Intercourse; General Expletive
Adjective." From "frig." See "frig."
....
Yup. Tragically anti-heathen in origin. |
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Post Colonial Boy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:35 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:57:39 GMT, Scott Lowther
<scottlowther@ix.netcom.SPAMBLOK.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Post Colonial Boy wrote:
It seems clear to me...
...that you think wriggling and/or rubbing are anti-heathen?
"From the Middle English for 'wriggle' or the Old French for 'rub',
'frig' is sometimes used as a euphemism for 'F***', at other times used
to mean 'masturbate'; usually only seen as a gerundive (or verbal
adjective) 'frigging'. "
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I take it thats where you think the etymology stops and that there's
no further background to it?
Nik |
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Post Colonial Boy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:36 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:03:00 GMT, Scott Lowther
<scottlowther@ix.netcom.SPAMBLOK.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Post Colonial Boy wrote:
My point is that he's dishonouring our heritage by using the
term...and pointing this out to him. If his desire is to dishonour our
heritage then so be it...be it on his head.
.....
http://dooryard.ca/frigg.html
frigg \'frig\ v - Used in place of similar sounding expletives, usu. as
an exclamation of frustration; "Frigg! I lost my mittens." From the Old
English for "masturbate," frigg long ago lost this meaning in the
County, although its origins as a forbidden word may have encouraged its
use as a substitution for other, more colorful forms of cussing.
...
Collins English Dictionary (c) 2000 HarperCollins Publishers
frig [frg]
verb (frigs, frigging, frigged) (taboo slang)
1 to have sexual intercourse with
2 to masturbate
3 [intr; foll by around, about, etc] to behave foolishly or
aimlessly[ETYMOLOGY: C15 (in the sense: to wriggle): of uncertain origin;
perhaps related to obsolete frike strong, or to Old English frigan to love]
.........
http://www.panikon.com/phurba/alteng/f.html
Frig - "to Masturbate; Copulate." This word can denote either male or
female masturbation or copulation, under the idea of "rubbing." It is
cognate to "friction" and "fricatrix" and derives from the Latin
"fricare" = "to rub."
Frigging - "Masturbating; Having Coital Intercourse; General Expletive
Adjective." From "frig." See "frig."
...
Yup. Tragically anti-heathen in origin.
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<laughter>
Like I've already said...a hint lies in this text:
"From the Old English for "masturbate," frigg long ago lost this
meaning in the County, although its origins as a forbidden word may
have encouraged its use as a substitution for other, more colorful
forms of cussing"
It has older origins...and its older origins are anti-Heathen
Christian abuse of our women.
Nik |
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Scott Lowther
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:45 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Post Colonial Boy wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:57:39 GMT, Scott Lowther
scottlowther@ix.netcom.SPAMBLOK.com> wrote:
Post Colonial Boy wrote:
It seems clear to me...
...that you think wriggling and/or rubbing are anti-heathen?
"From the Middle English for 'wriggle' or the Old French for 'rub',
'frig' is sometimes used as a euphemism for 'F***', at other times used
to mean 'masturbate'; usually only seen as a gerundive (or verbal
adjective) 'frigging'. "
I take it thats where you think the etymology stops
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The people who used it at the time used it for reasons other than what
you'd wish, and thus the link was broken.
So, as usual, your feigned indignance is silly and irrelevant. |
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Scott Lowther
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:46 am Post subject: Re: What Would Odin Say? |
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Post Colonial Boy wrote:
| Quote: | It has older origins...and its older origins are anti-Heathen
Christian abuse of our women.
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Guess what: words change meaning over time. This is one. Grow up and get
used to it. |
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