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 Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:23 pm Post subject: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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Pastor Frank
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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"John Vogel" <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef358c5_1@corp.newsgroups.com...
| Quote: | "Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1056023496.30503@arakis...
Sure John, but this post did not, and I need to see it to understand
what you mean and how this could have happened, and also how to prevent
it. Either that or explain what you want me to do exactly to prevent it.
Looking back on this message, it looks like I was in error. Perhaps I was
mistaken about the other one. Sorry bout the misunderstanding. It just
looked like someone else had written what you were replying to, and my
name
was at the top, but perhaps I had replied to someone else, and you were
replying to him and I, or something, I don't know. Don't worry bout it,
forget I said anything ;)
Of course you realize, that one of the favourite atheist methods of
flaming a Christian poster is to accuse him of lying. There is nothing
personal about this, it's just another method Satan employs to STOP
Christian witness. Don't let his minions stop you John, just laugh at
him,
singing the hymn: "We are glad when the devil's mad", and keep on
praising
your God through Jesus Christ. If you are effective in witnessing for
Christ, you have to expect some people to hate you, John. See below
Actually, most of the time I have been accused of lying by the flaming
atheists they were pretty much correct in their accusations.
|
If you are the Christian i think you are, you do not lie.
I've been
| Quote: | caught in a couple lies, to be sure, or (as I like to tell myself) a bit
of
stretching of the truth. However, I've also been accused of "lying" when I
was simply mistaken about soemthing. I noticed that Keeenan has apparantly
done this to you, in his accusations. I think the worst "evidence" he has
against you, is that you don't admit to your mistakes, and become angry
when
confronted with them. This is something I believe you might need to work
on,
but then I don't know you that well, and all I have to go on is the posts
provided by your enemy.
|
If you want to believe posts of enemies, that is your choice. But I can
assure you I do NOT lie, for i only write, what the Holy Spirit of Christ
tells me to write. I may interterpret differently than you, but that is not
a lie, and I do not need to appologise for it.
I was an atheist most of my life and I am well aquainted with the
methods used to SILENCE Christians. I would jump on Christians with both
feet for mispelling a word, let alone make them admit to incompetence and
lies. I silenced a lot of Christians in my atheist days, and was proud of
it. That is why so few Christians are posting their beliefs anymore in their
own Christian NGs, for our NGs are dominated by atheists. These are the
centries of Satan and their only purpose is to get you to STOP posting
Christ, and they use any and all methods to achieve that purpose. Some even
go on to post calumnies and blasphemies in your name. As you must have
noticed they are quite benign otherwise.
I am posting personal stuff to you only because I fear for a brother in
Christ, giving too much credence to Satan's minions, and allowing himself to
be distracted from his purpose of advocating Christ. Since accepting Christ
into my life, I would much rather post Christ and His glorious perfections,
than post in regards to the shorcomings of man..
God bless you too, and keep you in our Lord Jesus Christ.
--
Pastor Frank
SONS OF GOD
Jn:1:12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the
sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Rom:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of
God.
Rom:8:19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the
manifestation of the sons of God.
Phil:2:15: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without
rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine
as lights in the world;
1Jn:3:1: Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that
we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not,
because it knew him not.
1Jn:3:2: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear
what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like
him; for we shall see him as he is. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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In talk.atheism Pastor Frank <pf@christfirst.com> wrote:
| Quote: | If you want to believe posts of enemies, that is your choice. But I can
assure you I do NOT lie, for i only write, what the Holy Spirit of Christ
tells me to write. I may interterpret differently than you, but that is not
a lie, and I do not need to appologise for it.
|
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "I do not lie." Damned, that was
funny, Pester Fuck. You SHOULD quit your day job and become a comedian.
--
Mike atheism: a non-prophet organization...
Creation Science: an oxymoron actually created by morons...
-------------------------------
http://truthordare.dyndns.org/t-or-d
-------------------------------
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you
do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
-------------------------------
"If money is the root of all evil, then why does the church always want it??"
WWJD=What Would Jesus Drive? ("He drove them out in his Fury") |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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In talk.atheism John Vogel <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1056250822.762324@arakis...
"John Vogel" <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef35e4e_1@corp.newsgroups.com...
"Libertarius"
"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in
message news:TqudnXrECYl0q26jXTWJjw@comcast.com...
Pastor Frank wrote:
If it makes you happy to believe that someone can come back to
life,
having been speared into the heart
===>Sheepherder lying again!
A soldier having "pricked him in the side with his lance",
which is what the Gospel of John says,
(Greek: LOGCHE^ AUTOU TE^N PLEURAN ENYXEN, literally
"with a lance of him the side pricked" See NESTLE'S
GREEK-ENGLISH INTERLINEAL BIBLE)
is NOT the same as being "speared into the heart"!
Have you considered the possibility that Frank was not lying, above, but
mistaken? In what manner you judge, you will be judged. Would you like
it
if
everytime you made a mistake I called you a liar? Would it not have been
more constructive to simply explain to Frank that he was mistaken, and
to
shown him the proper translation or understanding of the verse in
question?
Are you now supporting apostasy John? That you should support
Libertine's contention, that Christ did NOT die on the cross, but that
the
spear only "pricked" Jesus? How then to you and Libertine explain the
issue
of blood and water from the chest cavity of Jesus, something which can
only
happen when the person is dead?
I don't think I ever said that Christ did NOT die on the cross. In case you
missed it Frank, when the soldiers pierced the side of Jesus, he was
allready dead.
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they broke
not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and
forthwith came there out blood and water. (Joh 19:33-34)
So, I really don't understand your need to be so contentious, and suppose me
to be supporting apostasy. What I said above wasn't even supporting his
theory but was more in line with questioning his motives for posting, and
asking why he needed to go that extra step and call you a liar. I realize
that you were not mistaken, as the water and blood does point to a piercing
through the heart, but it wasn't my point to even say you WERE mistaken, but
that libert needn't call you a liar, if he simply believes you are
mistaken...
|
We call him a liar for a very simple reason. That being that he IS one.
We'll correct him on something that he says about us, etc. and then he'll
repeat the very same thing in the very next message in reply to where he was
corrected. That is a liar.
| Quote: | -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
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--
Mike atheism: a non-prophet organization...
Creation Science: an oxymoron actually created by morons...
-------------------------------
http://truthordare.dyndns.org/t-or-d
-------------------------------
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you
do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
-------------------------------
"If money is the root of all evil, then why does the church always want it??"
WWJD=What Would Jesus Drive? ("He drove them out in his Fury") |
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Varicose Brain
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Faith and Knowledge, Rev. 3.0 |
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On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:13:17 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<pf@christfirst.com> wrote:
| Quote: | That's a weasel answer.
No it isn't.
Yes it is, for iit doesn't answer the question what should happen to
those who refuse to repent.
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Repent from what? Not worshipping your sky fairy?
| Quote: | You don't have any evidence and you know it. That's why you
weasel your "god" into some metaphorical tripe you don't have to show
evidence for.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 Jon 4:8,16) and our evidence is Christ
who loved us sinners enough to lay down His precious and innocent life, that
we may have a life free from the burden of sin, guilt and shame.
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That is not evidence. That is circular logic. |
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Varicose Brain
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Faith and Knowledge, Rev. 3.0 |
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On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 08:34:18 -0400, "Pastor Frank"
<pf@christfirst.com> wrote:
| Quote: | That's a weasel answer.
Oh, I see...and the circular logic you demonstrated below isn't?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and
Jesus proved this God to exist on the cross of Calvary. He laid down His
life, so that we might have a life worth living. That is enough proof for
most of us, but not all of us, for God and the ideals He represents MUST
be
a matter of belief and faith, and can never become a matter of mere
scientific quantification and determination. We believe, that love is the
key to a caring and loving society, as well as the Kingdom of Heaven.
Don't
you?
All qualities are mere opinions. There is no "evidence" that something
is beautiful, loving, kind etc. etc. and religion deals with qualities of
character, none of which are anymore logical, that your list of likes and
dislikes, loves and hates etc. etc. We love our God incarnate Jesus Christ
and what He stands for. What evidence of that would you accept?
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I have no problems with you believing what you want. If your bible and
your god bring you happiness, that's fine with me. Don't expect me to
accept your god for the same reasons that you do. |
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Chris Devol
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:19 am Post subject: Re: Faith and Knowledge, Rev. 3.0 |
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"Varicose Brain" <lacruiser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:qq8bfvs0jp4jldbii4a3a9scksclm548o7@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:53:22 GMT, "Chris Devol" <abc@defghijk.lmn
wrote:
Joh.8.44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father
ye
will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the
truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of
his
own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
You can quote all you want. I'm quite capable of doing the same,
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Then do it.
| Quote: | including atrocities against women and children that were committed in
the name of your god and with his approval.
|
Rev.16.10-11 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the
beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues
for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their
sores, and repented not of their deeds. |
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Keenan Clay Wilkie
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:20 am Post subject: Re: Faith and Knowledge, Rev. 3.0 |
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"Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> writes:
| Quote: | "Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.06.20.19.21.42.792540@eac.org...
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:42:32 -0400, Pastor Frank wrote:
"Varicose Brain" <lacruiser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7jn4fvk3qj3tceihj6setk42u735gmdrp3@4ax.com...
On 20 May 2003 19:00:21 -0700, awostenberg@psalmweaver.com (Alan
Wostenberg) wrote:
Varicose Brain <lacruiser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:<pucbcv86id619f5sum5obo92rldnkcl5rm@4ax.com>...
On 16 May 2003 16:41:11 -0700, awostenberg@psalmweaver.com (Alan
Wostenberg) wrote:
He's loving, and desires nobody go to hell, pointing out "there
will
be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over
ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance." Want the
crowd
to cheer in heaven? Repent!
It is inconceivable that a so-called loving god can create a place
of
eternal torture. That is not love. That is just plain sick
What would you have God do with those who permantly refuse to repent?
First, you have to show some solid evidence that the god of the bible
is really god, which has never been done.
That's a weasel answer.
No it isn't.
Yes it is, for iit doesn't answer the question what should happen to
those who refuse to repent.
|
Which is irrelevant to the issue of whether the "God of the Bible" is
really "God".
| Quote: | You don't have any evidence and you know it. That's why you
weasel your "god" into some metaphorical tripe you don't have to show
evidence for.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 Jon 4:8,16) and our evidence is Christ
who loved us sinners enough to lay down His precious and innocent life, that
we may have a life free from the burden of sin, guilt and shame.
|
This is your assertion. This is not evidence. You have yet to
demonstrate that Christ really did this.
--
See the documented lies of Pastor Frank: http://tinyurl.com/6009
Saddam's name coded in a famous and old book: http://tinyurl.com/6mr4
Back To The Future DVD Warning: http://tinyurl.com/6007
d a r k s t a r @ i g l o u . c o m | atheist #29 |
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Keenan Clay Wilkie
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Faith and Knowledge, Rev. 3.0 |
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"Chris Devol" <abc@defghijk.lmn> writes:
[snip bible babble].
It appears that Christ Devol is a complete and total idiot. Apparently he
has decided to forgo any intelligent thought for the rest of his life,
instead spewing forth verses from the Bible as though they have some
meaning without having any words of his own to ofer. Also, he's reached
the point where he is so out of touch with reality that he does not
realise that he cannot use the words of the Bible to prove that the Bible
is correct. Sadly, he's given up the ability to think for himself, and I
suspect that he doesn't even really understand the mindless dribble that
he is posting here.
--
See the documented lies of Pastor Frank: http://tinyurl.com/6009
Saddam's name coded in a famous and old book: http://tinyurl.com/6mr4
Back To The Future DVD Warning: http://tinyurl.com/6007
d a r k s t a r @ i g l o u . c o m | atheist #29 |
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Keenan Clay Wilkie
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com writes:
| Quote: | In talk.atheism Pastor Frank <pf@christfirst.com> wrote:
If you want to believe posts of enemies, that is your choice. But I can
assure you I do NOT lie, for i only write, what the Holy Spirit of Christ
tells me to write. I may interterpret differently than you, but that is not
a lie, and I do not need to appologise for it.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "I do not lie." Damned, that was
funny, Pester Fuck. You SHOULD quit your day job and become a comedian.
|
Given that I've documented him lying about my words in the past, his claim
that he "does not lie" is itself a demonstratable lie.
I once wrote
"I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of Christ
Scientist only by atheists in an attempt to disparage non-sect members who
happen to be both scientists and Christians." (http://tinyurl.com/eyxb)
He turned it into
" I've already proven you wrong, Frank. You claimed that the term
"Christian Scientist" is used to describe members of the Church of
Christ". (http://tinyurl.com/eyx5)
And then pretended that it was all that I wrote, deliberately lying about
the meaning of my statement because he knew that my real words proved that
he'd made a fool of himself earlier.
Frank is, therefore, a documented liar.
--
See the documented lies of Pastor Frank: http://tinyurl.com/6009
Saddam's name coded in a famous and old book: http://tinyurl.com/6mr4
Back To The Future DVD Warning: http://tinyurl.com/6007
d a r k s t a r @ i g l o u . c o m | atheist #29 |
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Keenan Clay Wilkie
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Faith and Knowledge, Rev. 3.0 |
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"Chris Devol" <abc@defghijk.lmn> writes:
| Quote: | "Varicose Brain" <lacruiser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:qq8bfvs0jp4jldbii4a3a9scksclm548o7@4ax.com...
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 01:53:22 GMT, "Chris Devol" <abc@defghijk.lmn
wrote:
Joh.8.44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father
ye
will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the
truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of
his
own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
You can quote all you want. I'm quite capable of doing the same,
Then do it.
including atrocities against women and children that were committed in
the name of your god and with his approval.
Rev.16.10-11 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the
beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues
for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their
sores, and repented not of their deeds.
|
Do you have any intelligent thoughts, or do you just look for random Bible
verses to throw at people because you mistakenly believe that it makes you
look like you're making a point?
--
See the documented lies of Pastor Frank: http://tinyurl.com/6009
Saddam's name coded in a famous and old book: http://tinyurl.com/6mr4
Back To The Future DVD Warning: http://tinyurl.com/6007
d a r k s t a r @ i g l o u . c o m | atheist #29 |
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John Vogel
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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"Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1056288083.906919@arakis...
| Quote: | "John Vogel" <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef358c5_1@corp.newsgroups.com...
"Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1056023496.30503@arakis...
Sure John, but this post did not, and I need to see it to
understand
what you mean and how this could have happened, and also how to
prevent
it. Either that or explain what you want me to do exactly to prevent
it.
Looking back on this message, it looks like I was in error. Perhaps I
was
mistaken about the other one. Sorry bout the misunderstanding. It just
looked like someone else had written what you were replying to, and my
name
was at the top, but perhaps I had replied to someone else, and you were
replying to him and I, or something, I don't know. Don't worry bout it,
forget I said anything ;)
Of course you realize, that one of the favourite atheist methods of
flaming a Christian poster is to accuse him of lying. There is nothing
personal about this, it's just another method Satan employs to STOP
Christian witness. Don't let his minions stop you John, just laugh at
him,
singing the hymn: "We are glad when the devil's mad", and keep on
praising
your God through Jesus Christ. If you are effective in witnessing for
Christ, you have to expect some people to hate you, John. See below
Actually, most of the time I have been accused of lying by the flaming
atheists they were pretty much correct in their accusations.
If you are the Christian i think you are, you do not lie.
|
Well, then I must not be the Christian you think I am. I do lie, though I
try very hard not to lie, and when I do I am chastised for it, and repent of
my wrongdoing. I don't lie often, and I believe that honesty IS the best
policy, but (to be totally honest) I do transgress the law within me, and I
do lie occasionally. I am not proud of it, I am ashamed of it, but I am not
perfect, and I sometimes submit to that temptation. Do you think this makes
me less of a Christian, now?
| Quote: | I've been
caught in a couple lies, to be sure, or (as I like to tell myself) a bit
of
stretching of the truth. However, I've also been accused of "lying" when
I
was simply mistaken about soemthing. I noticed that Keeenan has
apparantly
done this to you, in his accusations. I think the worst "evidence" he
has
against you, is that you don't admit to your mistakes, and become angry
when
confronted with them. This is something I believe you might need to work
on,
but then I don't know you that well, and all I have to go on is the
posts
provided by your enemy.
If you want to believe posts of enemies, that is your choice. But I
can
assure you I do NOT lie, for i only write, what the Holy Spirit of Christ
tells me to write. I may interterpret differently than you, but that is
not
a lie, and I do not need to appologise for it.
|
I don't have to believe any posts of your enemies, Frank. I have your own
posts to go by. Should I not believe your own words? Did your enemies
concoct these posts under your name to discredit you? If that's the case,
then I apologize for believing you have shortcomings. Perhaps you consider
yourself perfect, and beyond any carnal wrongdoing? I don't consider you in
this light, but there is always that chance that I might be wrong, that your
posts which show you to be arrogant and presumptious are not really from
you, but were planted by your enemies.
| Quote: | I was an atheist most of my life and I am well aquainted with the
methods used to SILENCE Christians. I would jump on Christians with both
feet for mispelling a word, let alone make them admit to incompetence and
lies. I silenced a lot of Christians in my atheist days, and was proud of
it. That is why so few Christians are posting their beliefs anymore in
their
own Christian NGs, for our NGs are dominated by atheists. These are the
centries of Satan and their only purpose is to get you to STOP posting
Christ, and they use any and all methods to achieve that purpose. Some
even
go on to post calumnies and blasphemies in your name. As you must have
noticed they are quite benign otherwise.
|
Yes, I also know the tools of the anti-christ, or "satans minions", as you
call them. I don't mean to speak against you, but to show that while I see
(and I could be wrong) pride, and some arrogance (in your past posts), I
don't really see you lying or purposely deceiving (which is of satan and not
of Christ). I believe (as I have said before) that you are a Christian, and
that you love Jesus Christ, but that you are not perfect (even as I am not
perfect) and that it is good to correct those things in our brothers and
sisters which prevent them from being an effective witness to the Word of
God.
| Quote: | I am posting personal stuff to you only because I fear for a brother
in
Christ, giving too much credence to Satan's minions, and allowing himself
to
be distracted from his purpose of advocating Christ. Since accepting
Christ
into my life, I would much rather post Christ and His glorious
perfections,
than post in regards to the shorcomings of man..
God bless you too, and keep you in our Lord Jesus Christ.
|
We all have shortcomings, Frank. Admitting to those shortcomings does not
weaken ones testimony, IMHO, but can be useful for showing others that we
need not be perfect to accept Jesus Christ, or to be a Christian, but we
should always strive for that perfection. I love Jesus Christ and will
continue to teach His Word as it has been given to me, and part of this is
by helping others (my brothers as well as those that oppose me) to
understand where they are weak, allowing them to overcome their weaknesses,
for the glory of God and the gospel of His Salvation. It's not enough to
tell others what the scriptures say, but our words are our witnesses, and if
we are puffed up (eq. prideful), using rough and unkind, impatient and
unwilling to teach in love, then we are not doing as we should, we are not
being good servants of the Lord. I just pray that you don't consider ME an
enemy, if I have said anything you believe unwarranted. I can be mistaken,
and I do consider you a brother in Christ, as I hope you consider me as
well. I appreciate your instruction and correction, and I don't just
discount anything you say to me OR anything THEY say to me, I examine it for
truth, and I take the truth and use it to build myself, to undertand my own
shortcomings, and by the power of Jesus Christ, to overcome those
shortcomings, in order to be a good servant.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt
to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if
God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the
truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will. (2Ti 2:24-26)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Varicose Brain
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Faith and Knowledge, Rev. 3.0 |
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On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 19:19:23 GMT, "Chris Devol" <abc@defghijk.lmn>
wrote:
| Quote: | You can quote all you want. I'm quite capable of doing the same,
Then do it.
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This site is a nice source of quotes, along with commentaries. I've
used it many times.
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
| Quote: | including atrocities against women and children that were committed in
the name of your god and with his approval.
Rev.16.10-11 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the
beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues
for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their
sores, and repented not of their deeds.
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....and thank you for proving my point. I will not worship a jealous,
vengeful god that has the mentality of a school yard bully that never
grew up. |
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Pastor Frank
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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"John Vogel" <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef52a57_7@corp.newsgroups.com...
| Quote: | "Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1056250822.762324@arakis...
"John Vogel" <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef35e4e_1@corp.newsgroups.com...
"Libertarius"
"Libertarius"@The_Truth_The_Whole_Truth@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote
in
message news:TqudnXrECYl0q26jXTWJjw@comcast.com...
Pastor Frank wrote:
If it makes you happy to believe that someone can come back to
life,
having been speared into the heart
===>Sheepherder lying again!
A soldier having "pricked him in the side with his lance",
which is what the Gospel of John says,
(Greek: LOGCHE^ AUTOU TE^N PLEURAN ENYXEN, literally
"with a lance of him the side pricked" See NESTLE'S
GREEK-ENGLISH INTERLINEAL BIBLE)
is NOT the same as being "speared into the heart"!
Have you considered the possibility that Frank was not lying, above,
but
mistaken? In what manner you judge, you will be judged. Would you like
it if
everytime you made a mistake I called you a liar? Would it not have
been
more constructive to simply explain to Frank that he was mistaken, and
to shown him the proper translation or understanding of the verse in
question?
Are you now supporting apostasy John? That you should support
Libertine's contention, that Christ did NOT die on the cross, but that
the
spear only "pricked" Jesus? How then to you and Libertine explain the
issue
of blood and water from the chest cavity of Jesus, something which can
only happen when the person is dead?
I don't think I ever said that Christ did NOT die on the cross. In case
you
missed it Frank, when the soldiers pierced the side of Jesus, he was
allready dead.
Did I say Jesus was still alive? I said quote from above: "when a person |
is dead". That should suffice to make the meaning clear. So there isn't a
"in case you missed it". I did not miss a thing.
| Quote: | But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they broke
not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and
forthwith came there out blood and water. (Joh 19:33-34)
So, I really don't understand your need to be so contentious, and suppose
me
to be supporting apostasy.
|
Did you not tell Libertine, that I may be have been wrong? To quote
from your post above: Have you considered the possibility that Frank was
not lying, above, but mistaken? I was NOT mistaken and you know it.
I admit getting irritated when I see something which in the eyes of
atheists looks like we Christians are disagreeing, if not accusing /
fighting each other. I accept your explanation and resolve to discuss only
the glorious perfection of Christ, our Lord and Saviour.in future, and not
be distracted from that purpose by either friend or foe.
My posts are only a pretext to publish relating Bible passages. I am in
the business of handing out leaflets In Usenet, and need to guard myself
against being off topic, for the only topic worthy of discussion in our
religious NGs, is our most holy and perfect Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
--
Pastor Frank
Phil:4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, honest and just,
and whatsoever things are pure, lovely, and of good report; if there be any
virtue, praise and thanksgiving, think on these things. |
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John Vogel
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Why can't we see God if he exists? |
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"Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1056288083.906919@arakis...
| Quote: | "John Vogel" <jvogel2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ef358c5_1@corp.newsgroups.com...
"Pastor Frank" <pf@christfirst.com> wrote in message
news:1056023496.30503@arakis...
Sure John, but this post did not, and I need to see it to
understand
what you mean and how this could have happened, and also how to
prevent
it. Either that or explain what you want me to do exactly to prevent
it.
Looking back on this message, it looks like I was in error. Perhaps I
was
mistaken about the other one. Sorry bout the misunderstanding. It just
looked like someone else had written what you were replying to, and my
name
was at the top, but perhaps I had replied to someone else, and you were
replying to him and I, or something, I don't know. Don't worry bout it,
forget I said anything ;)
Of course you realize, that one of the favourite atheist methods of
flaming a Christian poster is to accuse him of lying. There is nothing
personal about this, it's just another method Satan employs to STOP
Christian witness. Don't let his minions stop you John, just laugh at
him,
singing the hymn: "We are glad when the devil's mad", and keep on
praising
your God through Jesus Christ. If you are effective in witnessing for
Christ, you have to expect some people to hate you, John. See below
Actually, most of the time I have been accused of lying by the flaming
atheists they were pretty much correct in their accusations.
If you are the Christian i think you are, you do not lie.
|
Well, then I must not be the Christian you think I am. I do lie, though I
try very hard not to lie, and when I do I am chastised for it, and repent of
my wrongdoing. I don't lie often, and I believe that honesty IS the best
policy, but (to be totally honest) I do transgress the law within me, and I
do lie occasionally. I am not proud of it, I am ashamed of it, but I am not
perfect, and I sometimes submit to that temptation. Do you think this makes
me less of a Christian, now?
| Quote: | I've been
caught in a couple lies, to be sure, or (as I like to tell myself) a bit
of
stretching of the truth. However, I've also been accused of "lying" when
I
was simply mistaken about soemthing. I noticed that Keeenan has
apparantly
done this to you, in his accusations. I think the worst "evidence" he
has
against you, is that you don't admit to your mistakes, and become angry
when
confronted with them. This is something I believe you might need to work
on,
but then I don't know you that well, and all I have to go on is the
posts
provided by your enemy.
If you want to believe posts of enemies, that is your choice. But I
can
assure you I do NOT lie, for i only write, what the Holy Spirit of Christ
tells me to write. I may interterpret differently than you, but that is
not
a lie, and I do not need to appologise for it.
|
I don't have to believe any posts of your enemies, Frank. I have your own
posts to go by. Should I not believe your own words? Did your enemies
concoct these posts under your name to discredit you? If that's the case,
then I apologize for believing you have shortcomings. There is always that
chance that I might be wrong, that your
posts which show you to be arrogant and presumptious are not really from
you, but were planted by your enemies.
| Quote: | I was an atheist most of my life and I am well aquainted with the
methods used to SILENCE Christians. I would jump on Christians with both
feet for mispelling a word, let alone make them admit to incompetence and
lies. I silenced a lot of Christians in my atheist days, and was proud of
it. That is why so few Christians are posting their beliefs anymore in
their
own Christian NGs, for our NGs are dominated by atheists. These are the
centries of Satan and their only purpose is to get you to STOP posting
Christ, and they use any and all methods to achieve that purpose. Some
even
go on to post calumnies and blasphemies in your name. As you must have
noticed they are quite benign otherwise.
|
Yes, I also know the tools of the anti-christ, or "satans minions", as you
call them. I don't mean to speak against you, but to show that while I see
(and I could be wrong) pride, and some arrogance (in your past posts), I
don't really see you lying or purposely deceiving (which is of satan and not
of Christ). I believe (as I have said before) that you are a Christian, and
that you love Jesus Christ, but that you are not perfect (even as I am not
perfect) and that it is good to correct those things in our brothers and
sisters which prevent them from being an effective witness to the Word of
God.
| Quote: | I am posting personal stuff to you only because I fear for a brother
in
Christ, giving too much credence to Satan's minions, and allowing himself
to
be distracted from his purpose of advocating Christ. Since accepting
Christ
into my life, I would much rather post Christ and His glorious
perfections,
than post in regards to the shorcomings of man..
God bless you too, and keep you in our Lord Jesus Christ.
|
We all have shortcomings, Frank. Admitting to those shortcomings does not
weaken ones testimony, IMHO, but can be useful for showing others that we
need not be perfect to accept Jesus Christ, or to be a Christian, but we
should always strive for that perfection. I love Jesus Christ and will
continue to teach His Word as it has been given to me, and part of this is
by helping others (my brothers as well as those that oppose me) to
understand where they are weak, allowing them to overcome their weaknesses
(by faith in Christ Jesus), for the glory of God and the gospel of His
Salvation. It's not enough to tell others what the scriptures say, but our
words are our witnesses, and if we are puffed up (eq. prideful), using rough
and unkind, impatient and unwilling to teach in love, then we are not doing
as we should, we are not being good servants of the Lord. I just pray that
you don't consider ME an enemy, if I have said anything you believe
unwarranted. I can be mistaken, and I do consider you a brother in Christ,
as I hope you consider me as well. I appreciate your instruction and
correction, and I don't just discount anything you say to me OR anything
THEY say to me, I examine it for truth, and I take the truth and use it to
build myself, to undertand my own shortcomings, and by the power of Jesus
Christ, to overcome those shortcomings, in order to be a good servant.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt
to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if
God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the
truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will. (2Ti 2:24-26)
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